The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

Summary

This episode explores the emotional distance that pornography can create in relationships. We discuss how porn affects intimacy, connection, and trust ? and what couples can do to rebuild closeness and honest communication.


Transcript

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Marilyn, you're having some difficulty with your husband.

Yeah, yeah, what's going on?

We have a big difference of opinion on pornography, okay, and it used to just be magazines, and then he wanted to get a computer. And I said, Well, I really don't want to get one.

Yeah, did you think I do? I know what's gonna happen.

Okay, so you anticipated it that his motive for getting a computer was not to check the stock market.

Well, a lot of it is for business, but, yeah, a lot of it is for pornography.

Okay? And tell me, pretty X rated pornography?

Pretty X rated.

So how many X's?

He probably gets anywhere from 100 to 180 emails a day.

Oh, it's a chat room type situation?

Not as far as I know, not a chat room.

Okay, but you're saying it's pretty graphic.

Very graphic.

And it's stuff that turns your stomach or it's stuff that turns you on too?

Absolutely does not turn me on. And it's not just that he's getting spam. I mean, when I first got my computer, I turned it on and they were offering me Russian ladies. And I thought, I've never been to a porn site, and here they are. You know, it's a brand new computer. What's going on here?

So we got joined all these clubs.

Oh, so he's pursuing it. And you did say that he had the magazines at the outset.

Okay, so tell me, give me a snapshot of what typically goes on, and what you would like is the outcome.

What typically goes on? You catch him in the midst of using it, or, you know he's in the room, the door is closed. You know what's going on?

No, the computer is right in the dining room, on the coffee bar. I know exactly what he's doing, and so there's no shame or anything.

He's just he does it. He's not embarrassed or what?

Well, as long as nobody else knows, so he doesn't like anybody to touch the computer, because it goes to the inbox, it's going to be okay.

So who else is in the house?

We have a friend that's here occasionally, of course, you know, we get company.

Okay, and they may want to just check to make sure their flight's coming in on time, and get a surprise use the computer, okay. How long has this? How old are you? Just ballpark. I don't need to know the details.

You're in your 50s, okay, or close to 60, and so you're not newlyweds having this problem. How long has this been going on for?

Well, I knew some of it before we got married, and I agreed to him having two books.

Okay, so something like Playboy or something like that.

So then I went that, no, maybe, I mean, two strokes, I went to a half a dozen. And from there it went to a whole bag.

Okay, tell me. Has it just gone on and on and on and on the whole time?

Okay, let me mention a few things, and then you can jump in and guide me where you want to take me.

Typically, guys use porn a lot more than women, and obviously we know that, but typically, it's when the emotional intimacy, the thing that hurts the most, is not so much that they're looking at sexy women. Because you can walk into a museum and see naked women all you want, and some of them can be pretty darn beautiful.

It's that the emotional intimacy between the hubby and wife is gone. You don't feel that connection, you don't feel the tenderness, you don't feel the hugs, and certainly you don't feel the romance anymore. And I'm assuming that that's dried up a little bit in your relationship.

Hey, I gotta interrupt this, because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back.

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I wish I knew more about what girls want from a relationship.

Well, I wish I knew more about what I want.

Where's that ad I saw here?

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Huh, The Selfish Path to Romance, that is interesting, and certainly you don't feel the romance anymore, and I'm assuming that that's dried up a little bit in your relationship.

To me, him doing this is a big turn off.

So you're not? he wants to do that and come to me. I feel? I'm not worth it.

Okay, that you're not worth it, meaning what?

They stay away. You know, if that's what you want, you go ahead and enjoy it, but don't come to me. So it's like, love him, and I know he loves me.

Okay, tell me about that.

Pardon?

So you're saying that if there's a good foundation in your marriage, you love him, he loves you, but when you get to the area of sex, yes, something goes off, and it goes off to the point where he's making choices of looking at porn, and pretty graphic porn that make you not like that in his character, although you do like many other traits that he has, right? And so it makes it very difficult for both of you to be intimate with one another.

Because if he is looking at porn and then comes to you, what do you think is going through his head? Do you think it's I love you dearly, Marilyn, or do you think it's the fantasies that he's been thinking about?

Well, I think a lot of it's the fantasies. And I'm not saying that's all bad, but if I can't turn them on, I want to be with him.

Okay, have you let him know it in those words? Because that really sounds like the core, the sadness, the loss for you that you feel like you can't compete with what 20-30-year-old women in the porn sites?

He just doesn't seem to understand that.

Yeah, what would be a good outcome for you?

A good outcome to get rid of the clubs. I even suggested yesterday, what if you cut down, yeah, to just four or five clubs?

And how would that be better for you?

At least it's not so much. It's not so involved. I commented. I said, some of those girls are only teens.

Well, I don't like those ones.

He says, well, then get out of their club. Yeah, real easy.

So he's crossing a line. You think he's doing things under age? Are they 18-year-old teens?

Well, I think 18 is a bit young for a 60-year-old guy.

Graphic, right?

Okay, so, and I am old fashioned. That's why I get after myself all the time and try to say it doesn't matter.

So you're right, because I think that stuff feeling belongs between a man and a woman.

Yeah, you know, it's a mix. Because when there was a Time Magazine cover a few years ago that said it had a husband and wife in bed, and they're both kind of looking away from each other, and it says, "No sex, please. We're married." And the point was that once you're married, it's very hard to keep that initial fire going that you know when you first meet each other, what it feels like and you want. You can't wait to get in each other's arms and make love. You know that wonderful rush? It's hard to maintain that over the years, and many couples just settle into a boring routine.

And so they like the spice of the internet. They like the spice of porn. They like the spice of erotica or fantasies. It becomes a problem. Number one, it becomes a problem if you're not on the same page with one another. And number two, if it replaces the intimacy with the couple, and that's the conversation that you need to have with him.

You can say to him the point that you made with me: I don't feel valued. I don't feel valued as a woman. I don't feel wanted by you. I feel like I'm not good enough, and I would love to work with you so we can have the next decade or so comfortably with one another and not feel like there's another woman always in the house, the porn, and see what he says to that. If he says, well, listen, this is what I like. You can do what you said. I think your idea is very good to say, Well, can we cut back on it and maybe do something together? Try to reconnect with him.

Margaret, are you there?

Okay, that may help.

For more Dr Kenner podcast, go to Dr kenner.com and please listen to this ad.

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr Ellen Kenner and Dr Edwin Locke.

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