The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and at Amazon.com.

Rachel, you're dealing with an abusive situation.

Yes, ma'am, yeah.

What's going on?

Well, me and my husband separated six months ago, and the first couple months, we'd still talk. We'd even sleep together. And the past month, we live in separate houses, he's been being very, very, very mean, sending me emails, just basically calling me all kinds of names and talking about my looks, yeah, always saying things like, "Oh, you're a sociopath, you're bipolar." And, you know, because I have a real—I have a pretty bad temper. And, you know, I'm really, a really emotional person, and I've been to therapists and to my family doctor, and because for a little while there, I thought that something maybe was wrong with me.

Yeah.

And all these tests done and evaluations and nothing's wrong.

Nothing's wrong?

They gave me antidepressants.

Okay. And what did they think is the trigger for your anger?

Well, right now the stress is a divorce, I guess.

So you weren't an angry person your whole life?

No, ma'am.

Okay, so it's just during this period and you're getting mad after—?

You know, my kids are born, things got really tough.

Oh, say that again. I didn't catch that.

Well, things started getting tough after our kids were born.

And how old are they now?

Two and...

Two?

Months old whenever we had—pregnant with our daughter.

Yeah, so you had them real close together. So the problem you're dealing with now is, you went ahead and you separated, you're planning to divorce, I assume? Or no? And what?

He's just being very mean to you. You kept a connection after you separated, you still had sex with him.

I've been trying to get him home so—and he's just, I guess I'm being too pushy, and he pushed me away, and I don't know what to do anymore.

What are the tears? Yeah, tell me. What are the tears? What are the tears about?

I just miss him.

You miss him.

And what do you think he hates about you?

I don't know. I mean, things got really hard after our kids were born. I was, you know, 18, and went from no responsibilities to being a stay-at-home mom of two under two, and, you know, a wife. And his mom always, you know, was against our relationship, and now that once we separated, she's been all over, and she's been saying nasty things to me, and, you know, telling me to, you know, leave Brody alone, and she's gonna make sure he doesn't come home, and so, all these things.

So—so there—yeah, go ahead.

I just don't know if I should let go or just keep trying to hold on.

It sounds—it sounds like it's excruciatingly painful, like you're going through too many stressors at once. You're on super overload with the kids. With you—how old are you?

I'm 21.

You're 21, but you got married when you were 18, is that it? Or you had your first child?

And you had your first?

Yeah.

So you've been going through many, many changes. And always, the first year that a couple is first getting married is very traumatizing to people many times. And you wouldn't think that it is, but you change your lifestyle so much. And if the two of you haven't lived together in advance, and you are put together suddenly, there are so many things to iron out when you're first together. Then throw on top of that a newborn baby—which, you know, is care. You have to care for that baby how many hours a day?

24 hours a day, round the clock, with no vacations. And it is—it is very, very stressful. And then you got pregnant within that first year with your second child.

And so you—is there any way you can get some personal—you said that you went with her—you went to, I'm assuming, a psychiatrist who gave you some medication, or your medical doctor. Have you had any talk therapy?

No, ma'am.

Oh, I would encourage that. Is it possible for you to get it? You may not be able to afford it, but maybe there are some sliding scales or some teaching universities near you where you could go to a clinic.

Yeah, I've been looking around. I think I might be able to get some help in my church.

Oh, try—try to get some support. Try to get some help. You can also go to a website. You can either link to it from mine. Mine is DrKenner.com—D-R-K-E-N-N-E-R.com—or you can go to the AcademyofCT.org. That’s the cognitive therapist.

Meanwhile, here’s the problem that I hear. You've got—

Hey, I gotta interrupt this, because we’ve got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that’s it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back.

Back to romance... I wish I knew more about what girls want from a relationship. Well, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw—here it is! The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com. Huh, The Selfish Path to Romance—that is interesting.

Meanwhile, you—here’s the problem that I hear. You've got many, many stressors, and you're saying that he's emotionally abusive. He's pushing you away. There's actually a pattern that is called the distancer-pursuer pattern. Are you the distancer, or are you the pursuer?

Me.

You're pursuing him, aren’t you?

Yeah.

You're reaching out, trying to get him back, and he's pushing away. The more the pursuer tries to trap the other person, or tries to guilt the other person into coming back, or tries to even love them—you know, just tell them how much they love them, “please come back”—the more that a distancer will distance themselves.

So you're in a pattern that you want to break. You want to respect yourself.

And so—what can you name for me right now? Two things that you like about yourself.

I think I'm a good mom.

Okay.

And a good friend.

So you've got a good friend then, right?

Yeah.

Can you—can you lean on that friend a little bit during this time?

Oh yeah.

Oh, you are doing that already. So you're good. You want to remind yourself daily—or hourly—of the things that you're doing that are good. And I don't mean just globally—tell yourself, “You know, I was sweet to my son right now,” or “my daughter, I just read them a book,” or “You know what? I needed to be firm with my child right now, and I was—appropriately.”

There are wonderful parenting books. Go to my website, look them up. They saved me. I would not have been a good parent without those books. The parenting books—they're by Faber and Mazlish.

So you want to remind yourself what's good about you.

Then when he attacks you, realize that he's more reflecting himself than you—because he doesn't have good communication skills. He can't tell you what's really on his mind, and instead, he's attacking your character, your looks, or—you said a lot of put-downs, calling you a sociopath.

So just know that—you know, I’m assuming none of those labels apply. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be calling me, right?

So you want to—you can even write down the labels he calls you and rip them up in front of your friend, or have a fun time ripping them up. Just don’t let those labels stick.

If you want more information on whether or not he's emotionally abusive—I think that was your initial question—there was an older book: Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them, and it’s by Susan Forward. And that may help you also, because she gives a list of questions of—“Is he devaluing you?” “Is he threatening you?” “Is he yelling at you?”—and you can look at those.

But it sounds like he’s distancing you right now.

So I wish you a lot of success. I would get some therapy for yourself.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this:

Here’s an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner:

"Sometimes chronic conflicts over small issues—cleaning up the den, spending too much time on the computer with friends—is camouflaging a much deeper conflict that both partners are afraid to address. For example, lack of a satisfying emotional or sexual connection.

And our emotional baggage is a significant factor in the way we respond to that conflict. Each of us grew up having different life experiences, different ground rules in our families’ homes, different ways of managing friendships, different relationship histories, different ways of approaching work and romance. We each have an encyclopedic store of experiences, and we have drawn conclusions about the world and ourselves and how we think things ought to be."

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com and you can buy the book at Amazon.com.