The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance.
Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com.

Val, you're dealing with the possibility that your husband's cheating. Or do you know it for a fact?
I know it for a fact.
Yeah. What do you know?
Well, I caught — I saw emails and phone records. And I know he last contacted me when he was two hours away from where she was, and he drove for about 20 hours to get there.
So I know he's having an affair right now. But he has expressed recently that he wanted to get a divorce, and so I just don't know how I should handle it — what I should say when he comes back.

Okay, right now he's — you said 20 hours away? I wasn't — I was a little—
Yeah, he drove 20 hours for the affair to go see her.
So you just found this out, or you've known this for a while? You've been collecting information?
I've known that he's been in contact with her for two weeks now — constant contact.

Tell me first, what are you doing for yourself to not implode? What are you doing to nurture yourself?
I'm crying a lot.
Okay. What are you doing in terms of being very — do you have people in your life who are supportive of you? Do you have anyone that you can safely share it with — a close friend?
Yes, I've been talking to a couple of good friends.
Okay. Are you involved in any hobbies or something that you value?
Gardening. I've been thinking about planting some winter flowers.
Okay. Because you want to be able to nurture yourself, because it's one of the most horrific things that could happen to a person.
Now, I want to back off — barring things like war or 9/11 — let me give you an example from a book called After the Affair.
I'm paraphrasing a little segment in it that's right near the opening. The author, Dr. Janis Abrahms Spring, quotes someone saying, "When I was a teenager, I was raped. That was nothing compared to what you did to me. The rapist was a stranger. You, I thought, were my best friend."
And then she talks about how, when you find information that your husband or wife has cheated on you — or your partner — your world implodes. You start questioning everything:
"How could I not have seen this?"
"Is it me?"
"What did I do wrong?"
"How could I have chosen someone like that?"
"Is there any hope for the future?"
"Will I ever be able to trust anyone?"
Does this sound familiar or not?
Yeah, I've been through a roller coaster of emotions over the past few weeks.

What I would recommend first is — I know, and I'll come back to your other question, what do you do when he returns — is to get the book I mentioned, After the Affair.
You may want to ignore the subtitle of it. It's something along the line — you can go to my website, DrKenner.com, and you can read information on it, and order it if you want.
The subtitle is along the lines of how to rebuild trust when a partner has been unfaithful.
I recommend it even if you don't want to get back with your partner, or if your partner doesn't give you a choice — and in your case, you're saying your husband wants a divorce? That's what he's asking for?

Well, I mean, he last said that he was thinking about it, but...
I don't know if — my thoughts were that unless he comes begging back for forgiveness, you know, for me — that he wants to work it out. But I just—
Will assume that he doesn't.
How long have you been married for?
Eight years.
Eight years. Any kids?
We have one together and two from my previous marriage.
You mean one from your previous marriage and one from his previous marriage, or—
Both from mine.
Both from yours. So you're talking about three kids who are affected.
What are the age ranges?
Three, thirteen, and fifteen.
The three-year-old is young, and it can be traumatic, but the teenagers — right when they're on the verge of discovering romance in their lives — this is what Dad is doing.
So the divorce impacts everybody.

You're saying that if he came back and was sincerely remorseful — not a cheap "I'm sorry, let's get on with it," but sincerely remorseful — you would be willing to work with him?
Hey, I gotta interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back.

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You're saying that if he came back and was sincerely remorseful — not a cheap "I'm sorry, let's get on with it," but sincerely remorseful — you would be willing to work with him?
Definitely.
Yeah, but I'm afraid that's not the case.

And if he comes back and he says, "I'm out of here. I want a divorce. I'm in love with someone else. I never loved you," or something crude like that?
Well, that's what he told me when I first confronted him about it. It's an ex-girlfriend of his. And he said, "I've never loved anyone like her before, and I only loved you as much as I could after I loved her."

So he's hoping to rekindle that relationship.
But he will always carry the guilt of knowing something about himself now — which is what he's capable of: big time deception.
And that self-knowledge is some justice for you.

I'm assuming — have you had an affair, too?
No, no.
You haven't had any.
So I would be very nurturing to yourself. I would read that book. It will give you information if you do want to reconnect with him. It's worthwhile.
You can read the whole book because it's very empathic. It will really — and it also is very thought-provoking.
Like: "How did this happen in our marriage?"
It will walk you through a lot of different couples and scenarios where you can just see how this problem developed and then how they worked to remedy it.

With remedying it, the burden — see, he's in a different position than you.
He's currently in a situation where he's got you willing to work on a marriage, and he's got another woman in the other arm.
If you could see me, I have both arms up — as if I'm a guy with a woman in each arm.
Yeah.

"Gosh, I wish I could have both of you!"
Yes, he seems to be confused that I don't—
Oh, then, if there's some ambivalence, he may be able to work. Would he be willing to go to couples therapy?
I had mentioned cognitive therapy earlier.
We went to therapy. We went to therapy last week before he left — a one-off, just with one counselor — and then we were scheduled to go to couples therapy, but he said he could only be there for just a few minutes because he had to finish working so he could leave.

Okay.
Then I think the book is wonderful. Therapy itself — you can get that book.
Then, if you wanted cognitive therapy, you could go to my website again, DrKenner.com, and see if you can find a cognitive therapist.
There's a link to another website, the Cognitive Therapy website, that could help you out — you know, to find someone in your neck of the woods.

The number one thing is: he's got this image. You've got this image of him with a woman on each side, but the image of you is — you don't have two guys, one in each arm, do you?
You have one guy that's walked away, and it feels like your world's imploded.
And you've got the kids.

I would be very supportive of the kids.
Do the kids know about it?
I think they do a little bit. I mean, he's been immature.

Okay. The kids — we are right at the end of time. I wish we had more time.
Val, listen, I recommend reading that book and then just working with the kids — not to badmouth Dad in ways that are not fair — but to help them through it, so they still have their own teenage and very young lives.

And here's a little more from Dr. Kenner:

Nobody ever believes me when I tell them that I met Sigmund Freud. Anyway, it wasn't Dr. Freud who analyzed me. It was Dr. Kettlebaum in London.
And what was Kettlebaum's verdict?
He said my whole trouble was associating ideas with words and names.
My marriage to Fred Reed, love, for example. He said I married Fred because of the combination of ideas suggested by his name.

And all therapies are not equal.
Whether it's Freudian therapy — which I discredit out of hand — I don't think that we all have these aggressive impulses and these sexual impulses.
I mean, we obviously have sexual feelings, but to me they come from a very different source.
My understanding of it is that, in the best cases, it's an attraction to someone who shares your values.
And it's very different from Freudian therapy.

The gold standard of therapy right now is cognitive therapy.
That means that they recognize that you have a mind, that your thoughts really matter.
And if you engage in catastrophizing or stinking thinking, then it'll bring your mood down.
You will feel anxious, you will feel depressed, you will feel guilty.
Sometimes it's based on facts — sometimes you have made some really bad choices.
Sometimes it's not.
Many times it's unearned guilt — you're beating yourself up unfairly.

Really.

So again, cognitive therapy is what I would recommend.
And you can always go to my website, DrKenner.com, and look up cognitive therapy.
There's even a link to a cognitive therapy website.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com.

And please listen to this:

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner:

Another virtue that makes you lovable is productivity.
Productivity is the process of creating material values — goods or services.
Living requires material values.
If nobody worked, how would you get your home, food, clothes, car, or medical care?
Material values are not just a matter of surviving at the subsistence level.
The goods and services we buy are healthy sources of pleasure — books, appliances, jewelry, art, personal computers, massages, vacations, and much more.
We are not advocating using things, including money, as status symbols.
This shows a lack of independence and makes you feel chronically insecure because there is always someone who has more.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance at Amazon.com.