The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at Drkenner.com and amazon.com.

That's kind of sensitive. Listen, Phil, as a psychiatrist, anything you tell me will be kept in the strictest confidence. You know, it's funny how the more you bottle things up inside, the bigger they seem to be. Well, I've never told anybody this before, but okay, here it goes.

One of the hardest things for couples to talk about is their sexual life. They can joke about it, they can be playful about it, but when they get to trying to make it work with one another, so many resentments build up. What are the types of problems that couples face? With me today, I have the pleasure of introducing Dr. Barry McCarthy. He's a professor of psychology at American University, and he's a certified marital and sex therapist. So if you've ever asked yourself, what does a sex therapist do? This is where we may get some answers. He has a private practice in Washington, DC, and he's presented over 150 workshops, and unusually, with his wife Emily, has co-authored eight books on relationships and sexuality, including Rekindling Desire. Dr. Barry McCarthy, what a pleasure to have an opportunity to talk with you.

I'm glad to be here.

I see a range of couples, couples that come in with a range of problems, and I'm wondering, you know, they talk about they have conflicts over finances, or conflicts over the in-laws or with the kids, or dividing up household chores, and those are legitimate conflicts, but sometimes I'm really blown away, actually, by the fact that when you get to the sexual issues, those are underlying all the others, that if their sex life went better, they could actually deal with the in-laws better. Why is sex so important?

I think that's absolutely true, that the role of healthy sex in marriages is to be an energizer, a resource to help you feel re-energized, bonded with each other, and so you can deal with things like finances, kids, and in-laws. But when you stop being a sexual couple, when sex is less than once a month or twice a month, it becomes very awkward, and it really is a major drain. You lose that sense of being special, being energized, and being attracted to each other. So it's much more likely that you're going to be struggling with other hard issues.

So it's much harder if, if their sex life goes well, a particular couple will be able to weather the storms, and they feel more—as you use the word—bonded with each other, they feel more important to one another. And that's one of the great benefits of a great, healthy romantic relationship and a great sex life too. You mentioned a fact in your book Rekindling Desire, which is that sex adds about 15 to 20% to marital satisfaction. Now, if you're a teenager, you think of, oh my gosh, I can't wait to get married. Then we can jump in bed and be sexy all day long. But you're saying it only adds 15 to 20% of marital satisfaction, but that if it goes bad, it can dynamite a relationship, right?

And that what you want in a good, healthy sexual relationship. And again, a good, healthy sexual relationship means more than just intercourse. It means touching inside and outside the bedroom. It means feeling a sense of desire and attraction for each other. And obviously intercourse is part of that, but it's unlike what teenagers think, it's not the major part. And what you want in a healthy sexual relationship is where you use sex as a shared pleasure, as a way of deepening and reinforcing intimacy, and also as a tension reducer to deal with some of the stresses of life: marriage, kids, jobs, dogs, those kinds of things. Okay?

So that sex serves multiple functions, having it go well in a relationship. I want to turn to erotica right now, because when I listen to you speak, I went to one of your workshops. This is Dr. Barry McCarthy, for those who are listening, and he's written the book Rekindling Desire. At one of your workshops, you mentioned that most men grow up looking at Playboy magazines, and they're very used to self-pleasuring, and they're used to erotic techniques, whereas women don’t milk that as much as men do. And you might think that once a couple is married, they can openly explore all sorts of sensual methods, fantasies, and erotic scenarios, but they don’t. Why is it equally important for women? And what would you advise women?

Well, I think that as people are married and as they age, that men and women become much more similar. And part of the challenge for women is—

Hey, I’ve got to interrupt this because we’ve got to pay some bills. Thirty seconds, that’s it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where’s that ad I saw? Here it is: The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it at amazon.com. The Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting. Well—

I think that as people are married and as they age, many women become much more similar, and part of the challenge for women is to value erotic scenarios and techniques. And when the culture—not just women, but our culture—thinks of eroticism, they think of people who are not married, who are under 20, and they think of sex as something that is hot but gets you in trouble. Desperate Housewives is a perfect example. What I talk about with my female clients is to find your own sexual voice. And part of that sexual voice is valuing intimacy. Part of it is valuing touch and pleasuring. But another part is, what are the things that are your wants and desires that really allow you to feel aroused, orgasmic, and really valuing a couple’s sex.

So there’s some individual work to be done. First, a woman needs to ask herself, what’s erotic for me? What turns me on? And—

Do that talking to your spouse outside the bedroom. Rather than trying to do it while you’re in bed, I think people feel too vulnerable. A good place to talk sex is over a glass of wine or a cup of tea in the living room or the dining room or on a walk.

And to give each other information—what’s a turn-on? What’s a turn-off? In your book Rekindling Desire, you mention turn-offs, poisons for sexual desire. What are some of these that just totally demoralize a couple?

Well, probably the major one is where you're feeling angry and alienated from the spouse, or you're feeling very anxious or inhibited, or there’s something that has happened in your life, whether it was premarital life, or others, where you feel ashamed and guilty about it and say, if my spouse knew that about me, they wouldn’t love me. They wouldn’t care about me. And again, I think one of the great advantages of an intimate relationship is feeling loved and accepted for all of who you are—your strengths and your vulnerabilities. But another thing about anger is that the old view was that you can’t be sexual if you’re angry. You have to express the anger, get over the anger. And the new view is a both-and view: that you need to talk about the things that caused you to feel angry—and behind it is usually a feeling of being hurt—outside the bedroom. But part of the idea of continuing touching and sexuality is that it allows you to stay connected and gives you the energy to deal with the hurt and anger outside the bedroom. So you want the both-and approach.

So you want to be able to identify, what are these turn-offs or sexual poisons, poisons for sexual desire, and then to deal with them better. If someone wants to read your books, how can they get them? You’ve written eight of them with your wife, Emily McCarthy.

Well, in terms of desire, probably the most important book is the Rekindling Desire book, and you can get it at the bookstore or through Amazon or barnesandnoble.com. The book that we’re most excited about actually is a prevention book. It’s called Getting It Right the First Time: Creating a Healthy Marriage. And we talk about the first two years of marriage. And there’s two chapters—one chapter specifically about developing a sexual relationship, so you don’t get into these problems. The best cure is good prevention.

Okay, that sounds wonderful. Dr. Barry McCarthy, so glad you were able to join me today, and I look forward to talking with you again.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this ad.

Here’s an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and co-author Dr. Edwin Locke.

Sex is an intensely selfish pleasure and is based on both a deep emotional connection with your partner and a selfish desire to give your partner equal pleasure. We view sex in the context noted above, as good. The pleasure of sex is properly viewed as an end in itself, not as the means to any other end. Sex is good because it is rationally pleasurable. It is part of your nature as a human being to enjoy life-affirming pleasure. Dr. Leonard Peikoff explains that sex, quote, “is a celebration of one's power to gain values and of the world in which one gains them,” unquote.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance at amazon.com.