The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

On the selfish path to romance. Download chapter one for free at DoctorKenner.com.

We're going to speak with George. George, welcome to the show.

Yes, yes. You have a question?

Yes, yeah, tell me about that.

Yes, I've been married 35 years, and in the last five years, I came in with my wife, okay? And I'm on a lot of medication. I don't know if that could be it or not. I just feel guilty, you know.

Are there any affairs in the background, or anything I need to know about?

Yeah, there is once in a while because I can with the other person. I do become... don't be coming up with my wife. I do.

Okay, well, then this doesn't seem to be a medical issue, does it?

No, I don't know that. Yeah, no, if you can become impotent with a woman on the side, is it one particular woman that you like on the side?

No, not really, just makes me feel good in it.

Does your wife know about that?

No.

Does your wife initiate sex?

No.

Do you with her?

Yes.

And what emotion do you feel with your wife? Or what emotions do you feel when you go to make love with her?

I feel real good. I just can't do anything.

Compare that or contrast it to when you're with the other woman, because you can do something with the other woman, right?

Yes.

So, what emotions do you feel with the other woman?

No, she just makes me... you know, she just makes me feel better, you know, because she does more things.

Oh, so it's not vanilla sex with her.

No.

Okay, so it's a little more exciting. Is that part of the problem, that it's become routine with your wife?

Yes.

Okay, I'm wondering, have you tried to spice it up with your wife?

No.

Help me understand that.

Why?

I don't know.

Okay, whenever you get an "I don't know," what I advise my clients to do is to never have that as the dead end. Okay, in thinking, "I don't know" is the starting point of therapy. People come to therapy because they don't know what's going on internally. They don't have the inner clarity. And then as they start to ask themselves questions, like we're starting to do, asking about this other woman and your wife—I mean, I'm sidestepping the issue right now that you're betraying your wife. What are your thoughts about that?

Let's not sidestep it.

No, I feel very bad about it.

You do? Tell me a little bit about that. When did it, the affairs, start?

15 years ago.

15 years ago?

Yeah, but maybe five times a year.

Five times? Are you out of town or something, or, how do you get away with it in quotes?

I just... I don't know how I get away with it.

Is the woman in the same town?

Yes, she is.

Does she know your wife?

Yes, she does.

Does your wife know that she's betraying her?

No.

How do they know each other?

Work.

Oh, they work together?

They work together.

Oh, so tell me about your guilt.

I just feel guilty. I mean, you know, I love my wife and everything, but the other lady just makes me feel better.

If you were to tell your wife, what do you think she would say if you were to level with her?

I think she'd leave me.

And what... how would that be for you if she left?

Devastating.

Yeah, yeah. You got kids grown up?

Yes, they're grown, so it's not like you've got young ones at home.

What does it do to you to keep a double life?

I'm bad. I can't, you know.

Meaning you have to keep everything secret, right?

Yes.

How do you do that when your wife works with this woman?

I don't know. It just... it’s gone on so long that it just seems like it's normal. And I'm trying to figure out some way that I can quit... quit doing it with her.

Do you know what I might advise you?

Yes, what?

I don't know.

Yeah, take a guess.

Go to a doctor?

Medical doctor or psychologist?

Psychologist?

Yeah, I would definitely do that. What else do you think I might advise you?

Hey, I gotta interrupt this, because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick break, and then Dr. Kenner will be back.

I wish I knew more about what girls want from a relationship. Well, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is—the selfish path to romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com. Huh? The selfish path to romance, that is interesting.

Medical doctor or psychologist?

Psychologist.

Yeah, I would definitely do that. What else do you think I might advise you?

I'm not sure.

Okay. Well, you have one emotion when you're with your wife—guilt. Tell me, how sexy is guilt?

That I can't answer. You know, I just feel guilty, you know.

When you feel guilty, can you get super aroused?

No.

You think anyone can?

I should be able to. But no, you can't. If you've got the guilt, your subconscious is sending you a message: This is the woman you've betrayed. Now get aroused and make love to her. I'm not surprised that you're impotent, that you can't follow through, because your mind is sensing a mega contradiction. I think that you're doing a lot of damage to yourself. If I were to say long range, I think it took courage for you to tell me what you did. I think if you were to think long range, the most important thing for you is your integrity. You want it back. You want to earn it back, because living the lie does what to you as a person?

It just makes me feel guilty and everything.

Yeah, you walk around with that ooze, yes, right? If anyone else cheats, how can you blame them? Because you yourself are cheating, right?

Right.

Yes. So if you want to, I would recommend going to a counselor, giving it some serious thought as to how you're going to tell your wife, and then level with her. Do not tell her part of the story, but the best gift you can give her and yourself is to be true to the truth—to tell her what happened. She will hate the friend. The friend will be upset with you. There will be a very tumultuous period. I've been through this with many couples. Yes, some of them totally break up. Some of them strengthen their relationship and try to make it more exciting. But you need to work through these issues. I would get the book for yourself. There's a book After the Affair, and the subtitle—I do have it right here—is Healing the Pain and Rebuilding Trust When a Partner Has Been Unfaithful. It would be for both of you to read. It's also on tape and maybe on CD too, if you wanted to privately listen to that too, to figure out how you want to talk with her. It's totally your choice. You can try to live the double life, but I have seen it tear people apart. You will have no feeling of integrity inside, and it does damage far beyond what you would expect.

Are you at work?

Yes, yeah.

What do you do for a living?

I'm in a business.

Okay, I understand you probably want privacy. So, okay, well, listen, I wish you a lot of luck. I would say that the reason for the impotence is definitely the guilt, at least. Yeah, I think that you, your subconscious just has that very one. I mean, that's, that's a signal from your own mind saying you're doing something that's wrong. Your mind wants to connect things. You're trying to disconnect things, like pretend that you never had the affair. But your mind is an integrating tool. It makes connections. So you're fighting against your own mind. You don't want to be at war with your own mind.

Okay? I appreciate the help.

Okay, well, something to think about.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this:

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and Dr. Edwin Locke, who's world-famous for his theories in goal setting:

A romantic relationship should not be sacrificed on the altar of children. A note to a love columnist reported that five husbands among a circle of friends got divorced, all for the same reason. With each succeeding child, the husbands became increasingly less important to their wives until they felt totally abandoned. The husbands eventually turned to other women, who treated them as important. The wives, ironically, had no idea why their marriages ended. One problem was obviously the breakdown in communication, but the core problem was that the husbands were no longer their wives' highest values.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance at Amazon.com.