The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance.

Download chapter one for free at Dr kenner.com and @amazon.com

Really wish you'd tell me about it.
Well, if you must know, it's me love life.
Really, you've been seeing a man?
Only when I close my eyes and concentrate.

Now, I dated a lot when I was dating, before I was married, and I enjoyed it. But what do you do on a first date? If you're out there thinking, "Oh, I'm in the dating world and I'm meeting this guy or this gal for the first time," how do I deal with that? Well, with me today is Dr. Don Kiefer. He's a clinical psychologist, and he's the department chair at New England Institute of Technology, and he's in the psychiatry department at Rhode Island Hospital. He's had his own matchmaking service, which is unusual for a psychologist, and he's given courses on workshops on becoming your own dating coach. Welcome, Dr. Kiefer.
Thank you.
It's so good to have you on. Now, on a first date, if I were someone coming to you saying, "I am anxious as I'll get out. This is the first date," what advice would you start to give me?

Well, the first thing would be to make sure that the way that the first date is structured is done in a way that maximizes comfort. So I always tell people to arrange it in a way to keep it short and sweet. And so I tell them to do it, first of all, on a weeknight where you have to go to work the next day—not for a main meal—just so you can have a night like a quick cup of coffee and get in and out.
Okay, so that's so that you don't end up having a $100 bill on your first date. A quick cup of coffee means that if you meet the person and the chemistry isn't there initially, you can stop. Plus, there's no excuse to go till three in the morning if you've got work the next day.
Exactly.

And I really encourage them not to put a lot of value in everything said during the first date. There's a lot of nervousness and anxiousness, and just because of the way people talk, they do it impulsively, and it's not necessarily who they really are. So I tell them to have the right attitude—this is a basic raw screening date, to see whether or not it's worth going to the second date.

Okay, so basically, the first date is just the jumping-off point, hopefully into a wonderful lagoon, right?
Exactly.
And what other advice? What would be the next step to take? I'm on the date with someone now. I've arranged it—it's just a meeting at Starbucks coffee, and it's just a quick meeting for lunch. Now, what do I do? I'm sweating.

I have a few basic rules. First of all, I really encourage people to watch how much they talk.
People often—
I talk, or how much the other person talks?
Both. But in terms of if you're the one I'm giving the advice to, I encourage you to be very, very careful about not talking too much. People, sometimes out of nervousness, just keep talking, and they're uncomfortable with silence. Maybe the other person is shy, and they'll just keep talking and talking. It's good for you to show that you know how to talk, but you don't want to have a huge imbalance in conversation. I often hear people say, in counseling sessions when they review the date, "I could not get a word in edgewise." That really turns people off because they picture themselves sitting with this person for the rest of their life.
At 80 years old, exactly!
Right. So instead of talking too much, one of the things you want to do is ask them questions. Think about things they've said—either follow-up questions or other aspects that interest you—to make sure there is balance. It's a real give-and-take of two people getting to know each other.

So, in one sense, you're really interviewing the person, but you're doing it in a comfortable, relaxed, laid-back way. But if all you talked about was the weather, you wouldn't know if this person is a potential soulmate for you. One of the things is to watch what you called in a workshop I attended, "the balance." How much are you talking? How much is the other person talking? Make sure not to talk too much, and also make sure to draw them out. If they say, "Oh, this has been a rough day," what would you say to something like that?

Right. I'd say, "What happened to you today? You sound like you had a rough time. Work was really rough, yeah? What kind of work do you do?"
"I'm a psychologist."

Now, it's not only the quantity of conversation, but the next rule of thumb is the quality of the conversation. You need to be careful about not—hey, I have to interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that’s it. A quick ad, and then we'll be back.

Romance.
Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship.
Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is—the selfish path to romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com, and buy it at amazon.com. The Selfish Path to Romance, that is interesting.

Now, the next rule of thumb is the quality of the conversation. You need to be careful about not spilling your guts. Self-disclosure is important because you want the person to know you're willing to give of yourself, but you don't want to overdo it. This is a high-risk thing for people on dates—they often end up pouring their hearts out because maybe it's the first time they've had a chance to talk to an adult in weeks. The other person often feels overwhelmed, burdened because it’s usually someone talking, complaining, whining, or obsessing about a past relationship—
Like an ex-wife or ex-husband.
Right, which is not good to do on a date. It's a turn-off.
Tell me why that’s a turn-off.
Because people are looking to move on in their lives. They don’t want to replay your past relationship; they want to start with you anew. They want to build a life with you. They don’t want to be doing repair work, basically.

Okay, so they’re not looking to mend you—they’re looking for a companion to enjoy life with, a buddy, a friend. And bearing your soul—oh, I remember going to a conference once, and we were sitting at random tables. A woman sat down and said, “Boy, I was sexually abused as a child.” Talk about a turn-off.
That’s clearly a no-no, right?
It was abrasive and shocking, like, "Hi, how was your day? I was sexually abused."
How about you?

So it’s good to give some information, but certainly not your most private stuff. If this date doesn't work out, you don’t want to feel like dating is a continuous string of becoming vulnerable and then having people walk out on you.
An abandonment issue.
Exactly. And also, if this is a first date with someone you have no context with, you need to be careful about revealing personal information that could allow them to track you down. If you feel uncomfortable with them, you don’t want them calling you back. You shouldn’t give them all the details until you’re ready. This might happen on the first date if you feel extremely comfortable, but still, I would hold back, especially if it’s an internet dating situation. Don’t give them your home number—everything can be done by email or maybe cell phone. You don’t give them your work number either, which helps people feel safe and comfortable, especially with online dating.

Okay, and for women too, they should go with a buddy if they're feeling unsafe or squeamish.
Well, yeah, if you can get someone to do that. But the main thing is, as long as you meet in a public area, not much can happen. Just describe what you look like so they can find you, give your first name, and take it from there.

Right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Don Kiefer, clinical psychologist, department chair at New England Institute of Technology, and in the psychiatry department at Rhode Island Hospital—an expert on dating, matchmaking, and becoming your own dating coach. Thank you for joining us, Don.
You're welcome.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com. And please listen to this ad.

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner:
Asking your partner to sacrifice their rational values destroys relationships. Consider this example from an advice column: A recently remarried man wanted to take a trip with his 12-year-old daughter from his first marriage to bond with her before she became a teenager, immersed in school and peer relationships. His wife adamantly opposed the idea, even though she didn’t object to his taking an equally long vacation with his fishing buddies. Her objection to his vacationing with his daughter was based on jealousy and insecurity, which she allowed to undermine an important value of her husband's. If she truly loved him, she would not only permit but also encourage him to take the trip because it was important to him. This would have strengthened their relationship.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy the book at amazon.com