The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

(this is raw unedited text, computer transcribed directly from the audio, without voice inflection, pauses etc. Sometimes this results in the text implying the opposite of the intended meaning.)

(Micro ad) . . .
The Selfish Path to Romance - download chapter one for free at Dr kenner.com or at amazon.com.
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Movie excerpt:
Maybe he's not having an affair. I mean he could just be involved with, I don't know, people who get together to invest things and, and the place that they invest things is filled with potpourri and that's why his shirts smell so sweet when he comes home. It's possible.

It's possible. It's possible. We might find your husband neck deep in potpourri investing things.
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And that's from the movie, shall we dance, and you can see what that woman is doing. She's trying to talk herself out of that nagging thought in her mind. My husband's having an affair. He's smelling like potpourri. He's coming home, he's not around as often as, as he used to be. Well, what's going on? I don't want to believe that he's having an affair. But could it be possible that he's cheating on me? And of course, if you watch the movie, shall we dance? He is not cheating on her. He is learning how to dance.

And I'm Dr. Ellen Kenner. The show is the rational basis of happiness. And with me today to discuss the very painful topic of affairs is Dr. Tiffany Kissler. She is an assistant professor of couple marriage and family therapy or couple and family therapy at the University of Rhode Island. And Dr. Kisler teaches courses in couple and family relationships and in sexuality in sex therapy. She has published and presented at national and international conferences on her clinical research, which includes sexual functioning, relational and sexual satisfaction. That's what we all want, and sexual therapy techniques. Dr. Kessler is the co founder of psychological centers for sexual health in Providence, Rhode Island. Welcome to the show, Dr. Tiffany Kistler.

Thank you very much for having me.

Now, what is an affair? You know, I have many couples come into my office and say, I think my husband's cheating on me. And it's not what constitutes an affair.

You know, this is a really interesting question that comes up frequently both inside and outside of the therapy room. And ultimately, what constitutes an affair is really determined by each couple individually. This can range from aspects of physical non monogamy to emotional nagaina. Non monogamy, for example, some individuals might even have differences within the couple were any type of physical contact, even if it's of a non sexual nature, but with some tone or hint of sexual intimacy can be constituted or viewed as a violation of the relationship and considered an affair. Whereas others it can be as as much as emotional intimacy that that results in secrecy and some sort of sexual chemistry. So it's a tricky answer to this question.

Okay. Because I, what I hear Tiffany, is that people will come in My husband's in the chat rooms, and he's talking for business, but that feels like an affair. Or, you know, what my husband's on the websites and why I'm picking on husbands right now, looking at porn, and you know, our sex life is out, I can't even make I don't even want to make love to him anymore. Because he's cheating on me. I mean, he's looking at all these beautiful women's bodies. And I can never look like that honey at the age of 46. And it's just, I just feel like when he looks at me, he looks at me as a sex object. Or, you know, he says he has a right to have female friends, but they're not just friends, honey, they talk about us, they talk about our relationship. And that's not fair. Or I just don't trust him. He's away. You know, what constitutes an affair? I mean, maybe they never had intercourse. In any of these cases, the house, maybe the husband never cheated, or the wife if you want to flip it,

right? Well see, it sounds like here that either an implicit or an explicit kind of expectation for the relationship has been violated to that partner concerned, whether it be a wife or a husband, that this type of behavior is occurring outside of the relationship via the Internet chat room, whatnot. So if the person in the relationship feels it's a violation of some sort, they may classify it as an affair. Now that can cause a problem for the couple and ultimately get them in the therapy room, if they have different beliefs about what this means and what it takes to actually qualify as an affair.

So in that case, it sounds like the standard is that you know, I can look at my husband you are I, you are all I want and we have an exclusivity together. An emotional exclusivity. We only share our deepest, darkest or not our darkest but maybe our deepest, richest thoughts with one another. And we are we have intimacy only with one another, we're sexual only with one another. And when you feel that's violated, whether you see your husband or wife holding hands or patting someone on the back or brushing their hair out of their face, you know, someone else, it just feels like they've violated that standard.

Absolutely. So I think sometimes it's helpful to think about it as a betrayal, a sense of betrayal or a feeling of the violation of the assumptions that you hold for your marriage or your union in some way, rather than talking about an affair specifically,

right. So it and the point I think we're making is that it's so unique, it's so personal to each couple, what constitutes an affair? Is it an emotional betrayal, that incredible emotional intimacy that couples feel when they first meet dissipates? Because you see that partner doing the same things that she he or she did to court you with someone else? So, so it sounds like that is that's huge. Now, I have another question, though. What makes a fair so tempting, even with long term marriages?

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Hey, I got to interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds. That's it. A very quick and then Ellen will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is - the selfish path to romance. A serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfish romance.com and buy it at amazon.com. Hmm, the selfish path to romance. That is interesting.
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What makes a fair so tempting, even with long term marriages?

One of the things that contribute to making affair so tempting is they they really are a protected relationship. So they're free from the hassles of day to day life, handling kids, managing household responsibilities, paying bills, trying to negotiate the day to day aspects of a busy life. With an affair. There's more novelty, there's newness, there's excitement. You You don't know your partner in the same way, in most cases. And so also you're not as vulnerable. You can be who you want to be. There's a stronger element of fantasy here, because the reality of day to day life isn't as present in a fair situation.

So you make it it's almost like you can put in a bubble, a romantic relationship, and you don't have to integrate it with screaming kids and bills to be paid. And I think you mentioned when I heard you speak once, it's like strawberries and chocolate with a new, exciting, sexy person. Exactly. And how can how can a wife or husband or partner compete with that?

Absolutely. And, you know, it's just so tempting.

So you have talked about a three stage model, and I know we only have a minute left. Tell me about that.

Yes, I think there's a lot of great work on working with the fair couples that was created by Donald balcom, Douglas Schneider and Christy Gordon. And they have two books, one book for actual couples and one book for a clinician. The books are called helping couples get past the affair, and getting past the affair program to help you cope, heal and move on together or apart. And they speak of three stages, which I employ in my work with couples and stage one is absorbing the blow. Here you're doing damage control and trying to restore equilibrium in order. As you move into stage two, you're giving meaning and establishing new assumptions. So here's a deeper understanding of what contributes to the fair reactions, recovering trust and intimacy and reestablishing some security. And then as you move in stage three, this is called moving forward, where you try to move beyond the event and no longer allow it to control your life.

So you work with issues of forgiveness, developing realistic and balanced views of the relationship and try to make a decision about the nature of the relationship if it's a healthy decision to continue or not. And that's a wonderful outline. And thank you so much. This is Dr. Tiffany Kisler, and she is the co founder of psychological scent the psychological center for sexual health in Providence, Rhode Island. Thank you, Tiffany.

Oh, thank you very much for having me.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to Dr. kenner.com. And please listen to this ad . . .

Here's an excerpt from the selfish path to romance the serious romance guide book by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and co author Dr. Edwin Locke, who is world famous for his theories on goal setting:

A romantic relationship is a mutually beneficial trade, not charity or self denial. If your partner has done something that has hurt you consider the following in deciding whether to forgive how serious or characteristic was the offense, adultery or driving while drunk are extremely serious transgressions, as opposed to forgetting to pick up the milk on the way home from work. Sometimes the problem is not one big event but a series of disappointments that form a pattern over the years, such as forgetting your birthday and anniversary every year and neglecting you are constantly criticizing you.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance at amazon.com