The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish paths are romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and Amazon.com. Would you like some cake? I'm not supposed to. Don't worry so much about not supposed to; live a little.

And that's from the movie Chocolat. And don't you wish someone in your childhood had said that to you about something that was healthy to do, but that you felt like you shouldn't? There are rules and regulations, and you'll get punished if you play the piano at the wrong time, or if you run and jump and play when Mom wants you to sit still. Just sit still. And what about as an adult? Wouldn't you like someone to say, "Live a little, enjoy your life," and massages are part of enjoying our lives. Taking the time to nurture our bodies is a part of the joy of life, and many of us never consider having a massage. With me to discuss massages is Gretchen Blaker Mason, who is a member of the Center for Sexual Health team at Psychological Centers in Rhode Island. She's a licensed mental health counselor specializing in sexual and relational health, and she's been a licensed massage therapist for 15 years. Gretchen also teaches human sexuality at the University of Rhode Island. Welcome, Gretchen.

Thank you, Ellen.

So Gretchen, I'm wondering, do you ever use massage to help couples stay connected?

Yes, as a psychotherapist, I do work with couples, teaching them self-awareness and how to connect with each other emotionally and physically through touch. The intention and quality of touch are so important. So sometimes it's not just techniques, but it's how people connect and touch one another. There's so much information that happens and is conveyed before skin contact occurs. A lot of information is energetic and nonverbal and through the body. I often share the definition of mind that Dan Siegel presents, describing the mind as an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow and energy of information within oneself and between people.

Okay, the way I think of it, you know, I'm thinking of visuals as you're talking, Gretchen. I imagine a guy grabbing a woman's hand, and it's just mechanical—no feeling, no thought. Or you can see a guy reach out for his loved one in the most tender gesture. The feeling comes through the look on the face, the eye contact, or even a kiss. A kiss can just be a peck, you know, an unthinking "Bye, honey" peck, like that. Or it can be, even if it's just saying goodbye in the morning, really psychologically connecting, saying "I love you" with your eyes, saying "I love you" with your whole person. That's a quality you really need to nurture. We're not born with that. So if you're doing this with massage—I know my husband and I have difficulty with massage because we both like to be, guess what, the receivers. So, you know, I'll ask him, "Can you rub my shoulders?" And he'll rub them, and I'll say, "Oh, that is so perfect." And then it will end a half a minute later. Or he'll ask, and I'll rub his once. I gave him a facial massage; I've never done that in my life. And he said it completely relieved a headache he had, maybe it was also the psychological value of that too. He had a pounding headache. He's looking at me now. So how can couples use that massage to better their relationship?

Hey, I’ve got to interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. Thirty seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Ellen will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is: The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com. The Selfish Path to Romance—that is interesting.

How can couples use that massage to better their relationship?

Well, I think it's wonderful that you and your husband give to one another and take care of each other.

Well, we don't! I want more advice. We've done it once or twice.

Hearing you talk about that, it's really an amazing, connecting, and nurturing experience. You're so right about the quality of touch; it can make such a difference. Just a peck on the lips before leaving. Really learning to become present-centered is important, and tuning into what each person conveys through their touch, being curious about getting to know one another. If you’ve been married for years, you might assume you know everything about each other, but mindfulness and curiosity are essential. Let each moment be new. The more you bring your attention—if you're giving a massage—to your hands, the tissue resistance, what you're feeling… "Yeah, that is my husband’s hand, right?" It's a fascinating process, and there’s so much information. When I’m giving a 75-minute massage, it goes by fast because I'm really present. That's another element, too. It’s about being and paying attention, and time can go by quickly in that state of presence.

So really, yeah, and that’s a problem. I’ve had massages where the therapist is quiet, and I get lost in my thoughts, feelings, and sensations. With others, I talk about the kids, and it’s different. It’s mechanical work on my muscles, but I’m not “milking” the experience. In a couple situation, it’s about milking the experience—not having your mind elsewhere or feeling like it’s a duty. Not thinking, "I have to rub his back." I won’t be there; I’ll resent it and think about what I want to do afterward. Instead, I want to know his body, understand him, give him good feelings, and be open to receiving those feelings. Hint, hint—is the “hint, hint” method okay?

All that information does get conveyed. When you have positive intentions, they get conveyed through your touch. If you’re thinking, "I'm so tired, I don't want to be doing this," that's conveyed too.

Right. There’s a problem, though, when people think there’s going to be a demand for sex afterward or, “I’ll give him a massage, but he won’t give me one.” How do you overcome problems where there's a feeling of a “payoff”?

Right?

If that's the expectation, if it’s about "I'll do this, so I get that," that doesn’t feel good. So go in with open expectations, no other agenda.

Take off the pressure—no demand to have sex afterward. If it happens, it’s because you both want it; if not, enjoy the massage.

Right. That can be deeply satisfying, connecting, and pleasurable by itself when both people are present.

So if a husband or partner is thinking, "I'll give her a massage and get the payoff," he’ll be frustrated at the end. If they go in for the massage itself, and if it leads to more, it's because both feel aroused and enjoy it. Otherwise, it’s just about enjoying the moment. How can people get in touch with you, Gretchen?

Thank you, Ellen. Yes, my website is healthlessontherapy.com.

H-A-L-S-O-S-A-L. Thank you, Gretchen.

Thank you, Ellen.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and listen to this ad. Here’s an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and co-author Dr. Edwin Locke.

Initially, you learn about your partner one detail at a time. After you know your partner well, and this may take years, you may know what they're thinking or feeling without them saying anything because your acquired knowledge becomes automatic. But do not assume you’ll ever know every opinion they hold on every issue. Your partner has free will and independent thought. Values, preferences, and viewpoints may change over time. Both partners may encounter new ideas and experiences, and their reactions may sometimes be unpredictable. The need to communicate clearly and respectfully never ends.

Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and buy it at Amazon.com.