The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish paths are romance. Download chapter one for free at Dr. Kenner.com, and at amazon.com of course, I love her, but it's a different kind of love. I mean, it doesn't burn with the passion and intensity of a Tristan and Isolde. It is more comfortable, more familiar. Maris and I are old friends. We can spend an afternoon together, me at my jigsaw puzzle, she at her auto harbor, not a word spoken between us, and be perfectly content. I'm told it was a lot like that near the end in the Hitler household.

Okay, imagine that you're a wife and you've been married for maybe 10 years or so, and you're so frustrated in your relationship because you've begged, you've pleaded, you've cried, you've yelled, you've tried everything to get your husband on board and to try to help you out around the house and to try to pay some attention to you, but he's just not doing that. What do you do? What if you decide this is too much? I can't handle this anymore, and I want couples therapy, or at least I want to go into therapy, and I want to try a cognitive therapist, and you have the good fortune of walking into Dr. Judy Beck's office. Dr. Judy Beck is the director of the Beck Institute for Cognitive Therapy and Research in Philadelphia, and she's also the clinical associate professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania. She's lectured worldwide, and she's also written books. Her newest is Cognitive Therapy, Basics and Beyond, with a forward by her father, who was also the father of cognitive therapy, Dr. Aaron Beck. Welcome to the show, Judy, thank you.

If I came in as that harried housewife—or, thus I have a career too. I'm not just a housewife—but what advice would you give me as a cognitive therapist? Where would you even begin with me?

The first thing that I would ask you is, what are your goals? How would you like to be different? How would you like your life to be different?

I want my husband. Judy, that's easy. I want my husband to listen to me. I want to feel important to him, and all he does is he calls me a big nag, and I just want him to change, and I want your help in helping me change him.

And then what I would say is, can you imagine for a moment, Ellen, that everything is going really well in your marriage? If things were going really well in your marriage, what would you be doing differently?

I can remember that I never used to nag him. When we first got married, we were best friends. I mean, best friends. I could tell him everything; I could share with him. He would help me with the groceries. And I don't even know who that person is anymore.

He's gone.

Yeah, so one thing is, you would nag him. You'd tell him more things. Would you spend more enjoyable time together?

You know, it's been a while since we've done that. We're more in functional mode. You know, who takes the kids to the doctors? Who gets the groceries? Who does this? And usually, it's me.

And if things were going really well in your marriage, what would you like to do with your husband?

I'd love to travel with him. I'd love, you know, something. I don't even need the travel. I would just like to come home at the end of the day and be able to hug him, to be able to be with him, to feel that he loves me, to feel that—to have him ask me a question about my day, and that's not happening. Instead, I just feel him withdrawing in front of the TV set or with his work. He's so involved with work, sure, and he's not around me. He's not there for me.

You know, it sounds to me as if there are really two routes that are going to be important here. One route is to really analyze what you've been doing and what hasn't been working, and then try to move.

I probably have been nagging. I can be pretty mean when I get going. I can be cruel and I cry, you know. I just get so frustrated, but it hasn't been working. But what would I do differently?

Let me just ask you one more question. If you continue to do this for another 10 years, do you think it would last another year?

No, okay, it wouldn't last.

Dr. Beck, it would no, right?

So one of the things to do is for you to start thinking, if I were happier with him, what would I do differently? Not what would I expect him to do differently, but what would I do differently? And I think you'll find that if you start acting differently toward your husband, that he's going to respond.

Okay, so you're saying that I need to think about my role in this. And that's not the angle I was looking at. I was hoping you would help me change him?

Well, that's almost everyone who comes into my office says that, and the way that I usually respond is, well, you've already tried to change him for how many days or weeks or months or years?

Years.

Right? And would you say that you have complete control over him?

No, I don't.

Who's the only person that you really have control over?

Obviously, me.

Right, exactly.

So I could do things differently. I mean, there's a recipe that I make for beef stroganoff that he loves. And I think if he walked in the house and saw that, and I just didn't nag him tonight, maybe that would help.

That's a wonderful idea.

That's a wonderful idea. Now it sounds like there's also—and I think that probably you can come up with more things like that. You could think about that. There's a second thing I think we ought to work on, and that is—

Hey, I got to interrupt this, because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Ellen will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is, The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it at amazon.com. Hmm. The Selfish Path to Romance, that is interesting.

There's a second thing I think we ought to work on, and that is, it sounds like you're a little overburdened.

I have way too much to do. I have your work, you have the home, you have your kids.

Way too much, way too much. I'm so stressed out, and I think I take it out on him.

And it sounds like at least right now he's not going to be willing to help you out. So can we talk about some ways to reduce your stress? Maybe finding someone else to help you out.

I could get a mother's helper for the kids. There's a girl next door that could help me out.

Great idea. And also, I belong to—I think too many clubs. I have a bridge club that I really don't enjoy, and there's a book club too, and I'm just trying to fit way too much in.

That's terrific. So I think that reducing the number of things that you have to do, either by giving some things up, at least for the moment, especially things you're not enjoying, and by getting some more help in the house, I think you'll feel less stressed and then less likely to nag your husband. What do you think would happen if you say for the next two months, refrain from nagging him, got help for yourself, and put the emphasis on just trying to spend nice time with him?

That feels overwhelming. I mean, I could try it for tonight, but two months just seems like, you know, I'd probably break by tomorrow morning and I'd be back to nagging him again.

You know, what we have to do is take one day at a time, and let's try to see if we could figure out what are some things that perhaps you could do with him that wouldn't take very much effort or energy on your part, but might mean a great deal to him, like the beef stroganoff.

The beef stroganoff, that's a tough one.

Anything else that you think would be really meaningful to him, like giving him a back rub or something like that?

Oh, I think he would just be blown away if I did that.

He'd be pretty surprised.

He would be so surprised, because we used to do that a lot. We used to give each other back rubs.

And right, he would think I lost my marbles.

So you see, the strategy here is, don't do more of the same. Okay? Try something new, and you take the initiative to improve things.

So basically, I'm improving myself, and I'm going to break out of role play. Now I'm talking with Dr. Judy Beck, and she's illustrating how she would treat me if I came in as this woman who's having difficulty in her marriage, who's overwhelmed.

Dr. Beck, how would you sum up what we've been doing?

Well, we took a real-life problem and we divided it into two parts. One is trying to come up with some new strategies, and the second part, which actually comes even before that, is recognizing the need to change oneself instead of continuing to try to change the other person.

Okay, so it's focusing on what's possible to change and not getting stuck in the old strategies. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is Dr. Judy Beck, and if you want more information on cognitive therapy, they can go to the Academy of CT, all one word, .org, that's right.

And is there another website they can go to, Dr. Beck?

www.beckinstitute.org, okay?

And there you can—there are articles there. I read a wonderful article there entitled "A Change of Mind" that was actually from the Washington Post. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Judy.

You're very welcome.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to Dr. Kenner.com, and please listen to this.

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner: Another reason why the view that sexual pleasure is only physical, unrelated to your mind, your values, or your character, is very wrong is that if it were purely physical, it wouldn't matter what you think about sexual pleasure itself. But it does matter. To fully enjoy sex, you must believe that it is good. If you view sex as a guilty pleasure that must be hidden, not talked about, and thought of only with embarrassment, this will undermine your enjoyment. Dr. Lonnie Barback, a noted clinical psychologist and expert in the field of female sexuality, observed that many of us have a "sex is good, sex is bad" script in our minds. We are told that sex is dirty, and yet we are instructed to save it for someone we love.

You can download chapter one for free by going to Dr. Kenner.com and you can buy the book at amazon.com.