The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

Transcript

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and @amazon.com

My sister was in New Jersey. She was there getting some antique toys, and just parked on a side road in kind of a seedy area of town, and she walked out of the antique store or whatever it was, walking towards her van, and she sees a lot of activity around her van. What's her gut response? Well, you don't know my sister, but my sister just looked in. I won't use the language she used, but she said, What the heck are you doing? Are you robbing my van? It's like you have the audacity to rob my van. Get the heck out of here. But she said it, you know, with very strong language.

Now I don't think I would respond that way. I think I would run away, or I would freeze. I don't know that has not happened to me, but how do you respond when someone threatens violence, whether it's someone threatening to punch you out, or domestic violence, your husband or wife wants to beat you up. Or whether it's violence with someone holding a gun to your head, you're at a convenience store and it's a robbery, or someone tries to enter your home.

With me today is Dr. James Campbell. He's the Rhode Island coordinator for the American Psychological Association, American Red Cross Disaster Response Network, and he is a frequent consultant to corporations regarding crisis response and threat of violence. He is the director of the University of Rhode Island Counseling Center, and he teaches courses in traumatic stress and workplace violence. He is also the author of a book, Hostage, Terror and Triumph. Welcome to the show, Dr. James Campbell.

Thank you very much.

If you could tell us a little bit about psychological self defense, the do's and the don'ts, would you say that what my sister did was good, bad, indifferent, or what?

Well, we all resonate to those stories like your sister and then the brave store owner who responds assertively and with outrage and scares the perpetrator away. However, there's a lot more stories where that results in very unpleasant outcome and injuries to victims.

So my sister was very lucky. Yeah, I think they did steal the items that they had already, but I think she stopped it in midstream, yeah.

Yeah. So typically, you'd want to, you know, focus first on security, the human being, staying alive. It's usually more important than stealing money or objects, and so you focus on safety first and go with the prudent route, call the police and back away and let those folks do their job. Would probably be a more prudent route. But sometimes, you know, in our moment of our age, we respond just from our anger, and it's understandable, and I'm glad she was okay.

Yeah, so what are the things that you should not do if you've got, say, burglar coming into your home?

Hey, I got to interrupt this, because we've got to pay some bills. Thirty seconds. That's it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Ah, here it is: The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it at amazon.com. Hmm, The Selfish Path to Romance, that is interesting.

So what are the things that you should not do if you've got, say, burglar coming into your home?

Well, if you have a clear sense you have a burglar entering your home, then you want to get police there as quickly as possible and try to go to secure a place where you can lock a door until they get there. And you know that would generally be the most advisable response, or if you can leave and get away, but usually not to confront perpetrators who are prepared to commit violence.

Even when I am working with potential perpetrators, say, in a threat of violence situation, if I have any concern at all about safety, I make sure I have several plain clothes security officers there observing. You know, there's no good reason to risk your life when it's not necessary,

Right? I can remember I worked at a Veterans Hospital. Have you worked at one too?

Not a VA.

Okay. I worked there for two years, and I know when I applied for the job they looked at me because I'm petite, and they said, What would you do if someone pulled a gun out at you?

Alan? And they said, No, nobody. Why would anyone pull a gun out at me? You know, I wasn't thinking. And they said, Well, this is a Veterans Hospital.

And after that, we got training. Everybody in my class got training as to not to wear necklaces that are gold and thick, chained because someone can use that to strangle you. To sit next to the door if you're with a potentially violent person, a person who has killed people or has been hostile. So you sit near the door. You leave the door a crack open, you have a distress alarm. We had a little button that we could push that sometimes I had security guards, like you said, outside the door, waiting. The person didn't necessarily know, because that would provoke them.

I even had to have the duty to warn. I had to do that a few times. Yeah. Would you explain what that is?

Duty to warn, if you're working with a patient who has made a threat towards an identifiable target. In most states, health or mental health provider has a responsibility to warn the potential target and to advise the police, and it's a rarely used action, but it's sometimes necessary.

And in a VA hospital, where people have a lot of start up anger. This was from the Viet?these were mostly Vietnam Vets at the time I was working there. And they all have familiarity with weapons. And they have the weapons. They tell a psychologist, they let down their hair, and they say, Listen, I'm going to kill my neighbor Joe tomorrow. I'm going to kill my wife, kids, and, you know, I've got the weapon and I'm serious.

I say, Are you really serious? You have to do a thorough assessment. You can't have leading questions. And then when you're convinced that this event is likely to happen, or even if it's possible that it can happen, you've got to call the police, and you've got to let that person know. So in that moment, your life is in jeopardy, yeah, because they could get very angry with you. And again, I'm petite, so these are big guys. Yeah, strong guys or trained guys.

So it's worth noting here. We're talking about a very specific slice of a population. Veterans in general are, you know, certainly not at risk.

Very, very good point. Very, very good point. Yes.

So if someone's threatening violence, we have examples of robbery or an angry co-worker or a drug-using kid. What else would you recommend people doing?

Well, a few basics that apply to most situations. And then there's a lot of other things that are more situation specific. But generally, almost universal advice is to pay attention to your gut feelings and your fears and suspicions. It doesn't mean you're absolutely 100% right, but pay attention. Usually people delay reacting because they think, Oh, this couldn't be, you know, I'm just being paranoid. But most people don't react in a paranoid way, and so if you are feeling paranoid, that's something to pay attention to.

The other thing is, don't go it alone. Connect with people. Talk to people. If it's in a company, talk to your boss, talk to HR, company security. Go at this with a team approach. These things really work out well. When you try to work it out all by yourself, get help. It helps psychologically. It also helps resolve the situation more effectively.

The other thing is, if you feel impersonally at risk, take prudent action for your personal security. If, say, someone is stalking you, be aware of that. Log that. Vary your route. Enhance your security of your home and locks and tell neighbors, and keep track of license plates, and you know all those kinds of things to help assure your personal security. And if it's serious enough, even move. Move to a friend's house or a motel or whatever. The personal safety in these times first, yeah.

And you know, I tell my clients who have domestic violence situations or potential ones that safety is first, right? You know that that's always primary. You know, talking about divorce situations or whatever, safety comes first.

So thank you so much for joining us today. With me today was Dr. James Campbell, and I hope you'll join us again sometime.

Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure.

And you want to think about protecting yourself in your own life from people who can harm you physically but also psychologically. People can be envious, and their methods of being envious can be very subtle. They can just have ever-so-subtle put-downs, and then, You know you're really doing that today. Oh, I'm only kidding. Can't you take a joke?

That's usually the form that envy comes, one of the many forms that envy comes in. But you need to be psychologically aware that some people want you to grow and flourish and love your life, and some people want to undermine it, and they can't do it overtly, because you would be aware of it.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this ad.

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