The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

Transcript

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and at Amazon.com.

Who?s this? I?m Mr. Busnick?s anger management therapist. You?re in anger management temporarily. Dissembling is a common tool of the anger junkie. Dave, you have a disease? Would you apologize if you were a diabetic? Of course not. So why do you feel you have to apologize because you?re suffering from T.A.S., T.A.S., Toxic Anger Syndrome?

I don?t have T.A.S. He?s angry. It?s a sickness, not a crime.

I received a phone call from someone who didn?t know how to interact with this coworker. Now, this coworker isn?t just someone who was a nag, isn?t someone who just gets under your skin and, oh, they talk too much about their kids. This was someone who was paranoid and acted weird, strange, and the boss said he has issues. Now, the coworkers all had problems with him. They went to the boss. The boss tells them, just ignore him. He?s got issues. You know, just don?t pay any attention to him. The boss totally was putting blinders over his own eyes.

Will something happen at this scene? I don?t know. Did I have all the information to give this person an answer of what to do in this type of situation? I had a little, because I?ve been to some conferences. But with me today is Dr. James Campbell, who has a ton of information. He is the Rhode Island coordinator for the American Psychological Association and the American Red Cross Disaster Response Network, and he?s a frequent consultant to corporations regarding crisis response and threat of violence. So that means, if you?re at work and something?s going on, you could call Dr. James Campbell. He is the director of the University of Rhode Island Counseling Center, and on top of this, you?ve got a very full life. Dr. Campbell, he teaches courses in traumatic stress and workplace violence, and he?s also the author of a book, Hostage: Terror and Triumph. Welcome to the show.

Thank you very much.

So what would you tell that person? That person?s calling up on the phone, saying, I don?t know how to handle it. I?m afraid of this guy. I am afraid. I said, are you afraid that something really dramatic might happen? He said, yes, yes. You know, we?re talking about death or the guy coming in with a gun and shooting people. The guy?s pretty much a loner. So first, what are the signs that you could look for in this type of situation?

Well, this is a number of red flags you look for. Psychologists tend to not be incredibly successful at predicting violence, but nevertheless, there?s a number of red flags, I call them, that you look for that raise your level of concern. And one is already clear in the story you told: someone?s feeling afraid. Pay attention to that.

You mean the coworkers. It?s not just one coworker, it?s several, right? And the guy?s paranoid, right? And so he?s always accusing them. You did this to me. You did this. And telling the boss, right?

And that?s another red flag. If someone is blaming others for all their misfortune, then that goes to make it easier for them to say, well, they deserve to be hurt. Your Honor, you?re on a roll there. So what is it? Being afraid, paranoia, someone who has a very angry, inflexible, rigid kind of personality. If someone has lots of experience or familiarity with weapons, fascination with weapons or bombs and things of that nature, pretty obvious.

Yeah, yeah, some of these are pretty obvious, right? But also someone who is sort of despairing. You know, their life is crumbling around them. A spouse is leaving them, financial problems, they might get fired.

So there?s little left to lose. They can go on a shooting spree.

Exactly. If you have someone with nothing to lose, then you want to worry more. And someone that?s using drugs or alcohol.

Absolutely. That reduces their ability to control impulses and puts them at greater risk. And also an obvious one, if they?re making threats, be they veiled or direct.

Could you give an example of a situation that you?ve been in or you?ve been involved in where they are making those type of threats?

Yeah, there was a company where an employee said, well?

Hey, I?ve got to interrupt this, because we?ve got to pay some bills. Thirty seconds, that?s it. A very quick ad. Then Alan will be back. Romance.

Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship.

Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where?s that ad I saw? Ah, here it is. The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com.

Hmm, The Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting.

Yeah, there was a company where an employee said, well, if you close this department, some of the people are going to pay. And so when, six, eight months later, there was a corporate decision to close that department unrelated to this gentleman, then people remembered this statement and got worried, because he was making a conditional threat. And then they were fulfilling the condition, right? And so it was time to intervene and assess, you know, what was the level of potential threat there, and how do you diffuse it?

So what do you do in that situation if you came on the scene? If this were my factory and I wanted to close this department, what would you do? People are all up in arms. They?re worried that this guy??You cannot close our department, he?s going to kill our families.? Who knows, who knows what has gone through their minds?

The first step, of course, would be to assess: what do we know? What has happened already? What?s been said? What has the company done? What are some of the red flags that exist with this individual in terms of weapons, substance abuse, despair, interpersonal behavior, support system, and on and on, and get a better sense of the level of risk. And then people take different approaches. Some just resort to sort of a high-protection security approach. I will certainly utilize that. But I also believe in the value of making direct contact with the subject.

And what would you say? Say I?m the subject. I?m the guy that?s the loner, or I?m this particular guy who just said, ?You close this, there?s going to be trouble.?

Yeah, usually by telephone, sometimes in person, I would contact them and tell them exactly who I am. I?m a consultant hired by ABC Company to help in situations where there?s a conflict between employee and management, and I wanted to hear your side of the story. And over a series of contacts, phone calls, build a relationship with them. And you?ll be surprised at how open people typically are about what they?re thinking and feeling and planning. And then I?m able to get a better sense of what their needs and worries are, how we can help resolve this in a way that preserves their dignity, does not increase their level of desperation, and yet meets the needs of management. And it can take usually some weeks, sometimes months even, to sort that out in a way that is satisfactory to everyone.

What companies will otherwise sometimes do is just, you know, call the person in: ?You?re fired. Get out of here.? And that kind of thing.

?You?re going to get it.?

Yeah. And you may have inadvertently increased?

?My wife left me. I don?t see my kids anymore.?

Okay.

Exactly. ?And this is it. This is the final straw. I can?t take it anymore.?

What do you do in that moment?

If they are very high risk, then you may take security precautions. You may move potential targets to a hotel. You may, you know, call on law enforcement or private security, those kinds of things. But most of the time, it doesn?t get that far if you start, particularly if you have the opportunity to start early enough.

Okay, so you try to defuse the hostile person, and you let him tell his story from his perspective?and I?m saying ?his,? it could be a ?her??from his or her perspective, in order to feel more visible.

Tell their story, engage them, find out what their needs are. Say they?re worried about losing health care because of a sick child. Okay, you work with the company. Maybe we can extend their health care beyond what?s typical. What else can we do? You know, those kinds of things. And to keep them feeling, if not grateful, at least like, okay, I?m being treated with dignity and I?m being heard.

And to reduce their sense of there?s nothing left to lose.

Exactly right.

Well, listen, thank you so much for joining us today. This is Dr. James Campbell, and he is the Rhode Island coordinator for the American Psychological Association, American Red Cross Disaster Response Network. And he?s someone that you could call if you?re a corporation. How could they get in touch with you, Dr. Campbell?

Oh, well, they could simply call, I suppose, 401-243-4552.

Because you work on the national level. You work with corporations. You teach. You actually teach workplace violence?not you don?t teach how to cope with workplace violence. So, okay. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this ad.

Here?s an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance by psychologists Dr. Kenner and Dr. Locke:

The best proof of whether a person loves you is how that person acts toward you on a daily basis. Suppose your partner spends so much time at work you virtually never see him or her. Then it would be appropriate to ask, ?Honey, if I?m so unimportant relative to work, why did you want to marry me?? As to time spent on one?s career, there are no rules about how many hours one should or shouldn?t work. This can change from day to day, week to week, month to month, or job to job. Every couple has their own personal needs and unique context regarding the amount of time spent together. For example, if a partner has been called up for active duty in the military, then obviously the context is important, and long periods of time without one another may be unavoidable.

You can download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com and you can buy the book at Amazon.com.