The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com, and Amazon.com.

Hey, sorry I'm late. You lied to us and you made us into your alibis. That's playing us against each other, and that's not fair. You're both scheduling me 24 hours a day between the two of you, that's 48 hours. I just want to be able to make a few decisions on my own. I don't need this much active parenting. You can't babysit me all the time. I need you to back off a little.

Now, for many students heading off to college, it's their first time getting a taste of living apart from their parents. You might remember your own experiences of leaving home for the first time, what that was like for you. What happens when a parent doesn't let go? Or what happens if you're not going off to college, but your husband won't let you do anything you want to do, or a boss won't let you expand, won't let you act on new ideas? You’ll be surprised that some of the principles are the same in all these situations. How important is your own psychological independence?

With me today, to take a closer look at psychological independence, is Dr. John Lewis. He received his PhD in Classics from the University of Cambridge in England, and he is now an Assistant Professor of History at Ashland University, and his specialty is Classical Greece. Hey, Dr. Lewis, welcome to the show.

How are you? Dr. Kenner, thanks for having me out. Great.

Now you're a professor, and I've taught at the university too. Tell me a little bit about what you've observed with students heading off for college for the first time.

Well, this is often their first time away from home. And of course, some do very, very well at this new adventure for them. And some do not do so well. And it's in the people I observe, independence is a major issue. There’s, you know, the old Greek story about this that says that if a child is kept under lock and key by his parents, where every move is controlled, as soon as he gets his first chance at being independent, he will go off and go crazy, basically partying all night. He rebels and he parties all night. And instead of being—if his father is a penny pincher, he becomes a spendthrift and a gambler, etc. And sometimes that happens. In other cases, of course, a child who really, and I consider a university student to be an adult, the young adult goes away for the first time, and can often become very reclusive and basically end up calling home a lot and being unable to cut ties back with the parents.

So that might be a child who says, "Hey, hey, Ma, what classes should I take?"

Well, that’s right, sending you the book so you can look at it and choose for me, because I don’t know, there are so many of them here.

Well, more than the classes. I mean, the classes are a short-term thing. You know, if a child, if a student, takes classes, that's ultimately, in the long run of life, something that can be overcome, but how about the choice of a career? I have students who just don't know what they want to do for their career, and they'll come in and say, "Well, I talked to my parents, and, you know, they told me that psychology is a good career. I can get a degree in psychology, or I should be a teacher."

So it's not their own independent judgment. It’s either, "I should be a teacher," it’s coming from some external source, or it’s what a parent says, and they’re just parroting it. And it’s like they’re on a treadmill in life, in some cases. And of course, not all students are like this. But we're talking about the ones who have problems with independence. You know, I have this idea that sometimes the parents unwittingly push the student in this direction. The student may want to cut loose but is unable to do so because the parent won't let them. And often, this is not an attempt to be malicious by the parent, but just an unwillingness by the parent to let go, and sometimes a case where the parent just tries to do too much for the child.

Give an example?

Well, yes. I had an interview over the summer where a young woman came in, a freshman student-to-be, with her mother, and they sat across the desk from me for a brief interview. She was just there for information, and the student never said a word. The mother answered all the questions and brought everything up. Now, without asking the mother the questions, I was staring directly at the student. I stuck my hand out, shook her hand first, introduced myself, and I’d say, “So, what do you, you know, want to do here at the university?” And I’d be looking at the student, and the mother jumped in and said, “She wants to do this. She wants to do that,” you know. And literally, the student did not say a word. I didn’t take my eyes off the student, and I directed all of my questions to the student. Even at the end of the interview, when it came down to my saying, as I always do, that if you have any questions, please feel free to call me back. I reached into my drawer, took out a business card so they’d have the phone number, and I handed it to the student, and the mother reaches over to grab the business card, and I actually pushed my hand past hers to make sure that the student took it. The mother then asked, “Can I have one, too?”

And I actually said, “She’s not going to give ground very easily.”

In this case, I actually said to the student, “Your mother’s answering all the questions for you. Isn’t she wonderful?” And the student said, “Oh, yes, she always does.” And I said, “You know, she’s not going to be able to do that here at the university.” So it remains to be seen how well the student does. I haven’t had her in class yet. I hope she will do well, but she will have to overcome—I’m not sure if you want to call it over-parenting or over-protectiveness. This is not a malicious parent.

So let me be that parent for a moment, and I'll say to you, "Hey, my parents never took an interest in me, and I want to make sure that I'm involved in my daughter's life. So that's why I'm sitting here in the office with you, and you're treating me like there's something wrong with me. You don't understand me, Dr. Lewis. I am a very loving parent, and I'm trying to help her. I'm trying to give her guidance in life."

Well, I'll answer this hypothetically, because I'd never let the conversation get that confrontational, but if a parent did say that, or if you asked me to answer what the parent is thinking, I'd say, “Certainly, we understand this. This is not a matter of you doing something malicious or wanting to hurt your child. It’s a matter of you wanting to do the right thing. But you need to think about what the right thing is. Eventually, when this young woman goes out into the world and gets married or starts a career, it’s going to have to be up to her to make the effort to see you as much as for you to see her. And for her to want to do that, you have to cut some strings.”

“You don’t understand, she’s not used to making decisions. She needs me.”

Well, if she needs you, part of the reason is because you haven’t given her a chance not to need you.

My guess is the parent knows that on an implicit level.

Of course. And no conversation would ever get this far, and believe me, we're talking about a young woman and a parent who appear to me to have a very good relationship.

So it wasn’t one of these suffocating or stage moms?

No, as much as I could tell in three minutes in an office. It didn’t appear that way.

Let’s focus on the good parents—parents who want their children to have independence.

In the last minute, if you could give some pointers to parents of college-age students that all of us could really learn from, because the principles are very broad. What are two or three pointers you would give them in terms of helping their children become more independent?

Well, the one thing is to differentiate, make certain that you're there for the child, for the student. You know, if this young person needs you, make sure you’re there. Don’t cut them off, but don’t push yourself on them. The student has to select the courses, for example, for herself or himself, and do that because when she sits in the classroom taking those courses, you can’t be there to take her exams.

So to give her some breathing room and some practice in the skills of making her own choices.

Now, what if she makes a mistake?

She makes mistakes. I made mistakes. You made mistakes. What’s the problem with a mistake? You make a mistake, and you correct it.

So she learns how to deal with mistakes. That’s part of the learning process.

How is she going to know what's a mistake if she doesn't have a chance to evaluate it for herself?

Right?

Well, I want to thank you so much for joining us today.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com.

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and co-author Dr. Edwin Locke:

Your romantic partner cannot also be your therapist. The roles are totally different. Your partner can be understanding and supportive, but cannot be responsible for your mental health. If you're riddled with self-doubts, fears, and anxieties, don’t ask your partner to put you together again. That is your job, along with the help of a professional. Mental health is important, and psychological problems can be resolved if you seek professional help, put in the effort, and do the introspective work. You need not remain a mystery to yourself. You'll acquire the ability to remove the barriers to your happiness, and you'll make yourself more lovable.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance on Amazon.com.