The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com, and @amazon.com

Meredith, you're dealing with a separation.
I am. I'm getting ready to, unfortunately, have to deal with one, and this has been an exceptionally hard day. I've just, I have fought this separation for, I don't know, five, six months now, and don't think that what I've been doing is working, considering the fact that I'm probably getting ready to start packing as I hang up the phone with you.

Okay, so just give me a little more background information. Are you separating from marriage?
Yeah, 13 years.
13 years.
Kids?
One.
How old?
14.
A 14-year-old—
Gorilla boy—
Daughter.
A daughter, okay, and it sounds like you're not the one that's initiating the separation.
No, I'm not.

Long story short—and it sounds so ridiculously silly—but my husband and I, we were arguing one day, and we really didn't argue that much, but we were arguing that particular day, and I was just very angry and said something that I probably should not have said, and he really took this personally, and I really didn't mean it personally. I think I was saying it out of anger, and also said it just basically to get the attention that I felt like any attention at that point would have been better than none. And I said it out of anger and out of an attention-getting moment. And boy, did I ever mess up and—and, you know, his words were, “I don't know why you would say that to me. Look at all that we've been through, and look at all that I've done for you, and I think that just about does it for me.” And he meant it. He meant it.

And I have begged and I have pleaded, and I feel like I don't—I feel like I don't even have any self left. I mean, self-esteem. I mean, I've done everything wrong instead of probably giving him the space that he probably needs, I've dug in and said, “I'm not leaving. If you want a separation, you go get one.” But we just built a new home, and we've got the lake house that we've always wanted, and we have a child that depends on her mother and her father being together, and I'm not going anywhere, and he is just really, you know, is getting to the point to where I am going to have to leave and/or somebody is, and I'm just not an animal in it at all.

Understandably. So was that just the tip of the iceberg when you let go? I'm not sure if you want to share what you said or the ballpark of what you said...

I don't think I mind at this point. It was really ugly. My words were, “How does it make you feel to know that your wife hates you?”

Okay, so you told him you hated him.
I did. Yeah. And I would like to just do a little sidebar. I once went to a conference on love, and one of the speakers talked about marital hatred. And he says, “You know, when I bring up the topic of marital hatred, nobody in my audience has ever come up and said to me, ‘Why do you say hatred?’” Because so many people feel such a range of emotion in a close relationship like that—especially for 13 years—that it's a rare couple that doesn't experience some hurt, some anger, some intense feelings of “it's not fair.” And if they don't have communication skills, if they don't know how to express that and they hold it in, it can build. And it's very common for people to feel that. But however he took it, it sounds like it was very profound, very cutting for him. Was it the tip of the iceberg?

Hey, I got to interrupt this, because we've got to pay some bills.
30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back.

Romance. I wish I knew more about what girls want from a relationship.
Well, I wish I knew more about what I want.
Where’s that ad I saw? Here it is.
The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook.
Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com.
Huh. The Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting.

It sounds like it was very profound, very cutting for him. Was it the tip of the iceberg? Were there a lot of things going on between you?
Yes.
Yeah, I think that was just kind of the breaking point, really. I think I feel like that I'm married to someone who wants a business partner.
Okay.
Yes, and I have never been that for him.
Yeah.
I'm an educated person, but I have never been what he feels like he needs. He has an expectation level that it's very hard for me to meet in any aspect of our marriage, whether it be house cleaning, appearance—just any day-to-day thing. He's a very—I don't really know what the word is. He's not necessarily a perfectionist, but he sees things the way he wants them done. And even when he finds himself falling short and he's not able to fulfill his own goal, he's very difficult and he's very driven. And I'm not. I like—I like nice things, I like fun things, but I also enjoy my family as well. And it's not been near as important to me to be that partner that he wants. His idea to me in a marriage is, you know, when he says, “I need some help financially.” Well, I could—I don't feel like I could ever really give him financially what he really feels like he expects. And that's been a very big, big issue in our marriage. And he has a mother that is a wonderful, wonderful person, but she's everything that I'm not. And I think that he does maybe—if it's a subconscious thing—I think he holds me to that level, and I just don't meet it.

So it sounds like you're wanting a divorce. It sounds like he—I mean, if you look at it from his perspective, you're going to feel very inadequate. It sounds like you both have a different pacing to life, different goals, and you've been chronically living with somebody who mirrors you back as, “You're not good enough.” You know, that's exactly—
“Meredith, you're not good enough. You're kind of okay. You do some nice things around the house, but they're not good enough.”
Well, that's exactly—if that's the way you feel, then it may not be so much hatred of him, but not having the emotional intimacy that you want in a partner. Because the fundamental quality that you want in a dynamite romantic relationship, where you don't hate one another, is that you feel valued and visible and cherished and cared for—for the things you value most in yourself. And it's not that you don't see where you can both grow, but you're a friend, supporting one another—not looking down trying to say “Not good enough, not good enough,” and be that critical judge or the critical parent. So it's sounding like you're wanting a separation.

Well, I sure don't feel that way.
I know it doesn't feel—

Because if you frame it—the skill is to reframe. In cognitive therapy, it's called cognitive reframing. And you want to look at it from your perspective: “Was I happy in the relationship? What do I wish had changed? What could have been better?” You can look at what you could have done better. You could have communicated better, maybe earlier. You learn from that. You can't go back in time and just prepare. You talked about giving him some space. I think that's proper.
Listen, I want to talk to you a little bit more off—when we hang up, for a second. Okay?

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this:

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance: A Serious Romance Guidebook by Drs. Kenner and Locke:

"Irrationality is one basis for divorce, but often, differences can be reasonable. Two reasonable people may discover they are seriously mismatched. For example, one may have a career that requires long work hours, and the other wants a companion who has more time to spend together. Personalities may conflict. One partner may be formal and quiet and the other extroverted and boisterous, or they may have just grown in different directions. Not all irreconcilable differences are moral issues. Many are just a matter of decent partners discovering that they are personally incompatible and wanting to find more compatible partners. Both partners have the right to end the relationship with mutual respect."

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy the book at Amazon.com.