The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

Transcript

The Selfish Path to Romance. Download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com, and @amazon.com

I haven't been sleeping.

I've been clearing my head or haven?t felt like myself?sick, nauseous, sleepy. Everything looks distorted, and everything inside just kind of peaks, and you can barely find the will to complain.

Let's say that I'm somebody who's seriously depressed. I get up in the morning and there's nothing to look forward to. My kids don't care for me anymore, and I've just given up on life. And I'm not quite suicidal, but I've got no energy to move, no energy to go on.

Let's say then that I go to a cognitive therapist such as Dr. Judy Beck, and I have the pleasure today of introducing Dr. Judy Beck, who is the Director of the Beck Institute for Cognitive Therapy and Research, and she's a Clinical Associate Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania. She's written a few books. Her recent book is Cognitive Therapy: Basics and Beyond by Judith S. Beck, and her dad is the father of cognitive therapy. Judy, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

It's wonderful to have you on. If I'm that depressed person, I'm really down in the dumps. Help me out?what would you be asking me? What would you be looking for in terms of my thinking processes? Because that's what cognitive therapy looks at.

Yes, that's right. Actually, there are two things that we'd want to do simultaneously. One is, I need to get a lot more information about what your day looks like. So I would ask you to describe a typical day for me.

I get up in the morning, I wake up, I watch the news, the news is so depressing. And then I sometimes take a nap because what's there to live for? Then I try to go to work a little?you know, I putter around the house, but I don't have it in me anymore.

The next thing I would ask is, what did you used to like to do before you got depressed? How was your day different?

Oh, boy, that was a tough question. And I'm breaking out of role play now. But that was a tough question, because you're shifting gears here. I'm like, so depressed, and it's like now I can focus on the things that I love in life. You know, I used to be so active. If you had met me even 10 years ago, I was up first thing in the morning. I was playing tennis. Then I was out, and I went to work. Every day I would call my kids. I wouldn't sit and wait for them to call me. And I loved my life.

And it sounds like things are pretty different now.

Yeah, they're very different.

So if it's all right with you, what I'd like to do is to talk to you about how you might make this coming week different, how you might try to do some of the things that you used to do.

I can't play tennis anymore.

In that case, we're going to have to substitute some other activities. Let me tell you also, Ellen, that there's another thing that I want to do with you, and that is, it may be that we can come up with some things for you to do, but you might have some thoughts that get in the way of doing it. For example, you might have thoughts like?

Hey, I?ve got to interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Ellen will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Ah, here it is?The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it at Amazon.com. Hmm, The Selfish Path to Romance. That is interesting.

It may be that we can come up with some things for you to do, but you might have some thoughts that get in the way of doing it. For example, you might have thoughts like, ?Well, I would be too tired to do this,? or ?It wouldn't help,? or ?I wouldn't have a good time,? things like that.

Yeah, well, I do think that nobody wants to be around me because I'm so depressed, right? And I always tell them what I heard on the news.

I see. So Ellen, let me give you a choice. Would you like to talk first about some of the things that you could do differently this week? Or do you think it would be more important for us to talk about this thought, ?No one wants to be with me??

Maybe nobody wants to be with me.

Okay. Now Ellen, when you have that thought, how does that thought make you feel emotionally?

Oh, depressed. Makes you feel real depressed. And when you have that thought, ?No one wants to be with me,? how much do you believe it?

100%.

100%. Right. Ellen, can you tell me what evidence you have that that thought is true? Who specifically do you know for sure doesn't want to be with you?

I was talking with my son the other day, and he just got off the phone quickly. He said he had to go, right?

And has he come out and said, ?Mom, I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to be with you??

Oh no, he's going?he?s in school and he's taking exams right now.

I see. So Ellen, might there be another reason why he got off the phone quickly, other than that he doesn't want to talk?

Oh yeah, I think it's his girlfriend. I think that he was getting ready to be with her.

I see. Right? So is it possible actually that your son, when he's not with his girlfriend, might want to talk to you?

Yeah, we don't have a bad relationship. It's just, I never call him anymore.

I see. And what do you think would happen?what's your prediction?if you were to call him at a good time for him? What would happen?

It would probably be better for me to email him. He responds all the time when I email him. And if I tell him something depressing, he usually tries to pick me up. But if I tell him something better, I get a longer email back from him.

That's wonderful. So you've already figured this one out.

What would you think, Ellen, of this week having a special homework assignment?not like high school homework, but depression homework, or anti-depression homework? Would you be willing to try to email your son a couple of times this week?

Yeah, I guess I could do that. I have plenty of time on my hands now.

You could email him depressing things, or you could email him other more uplifting things. Which do you think would help your mood better?

Oh, obviously the uplifting things.

Can you tell me one or two or three things then that you could email him about?

I love ice skating, and I watched it on TV the other day, and he shares the love of that with me. I could tell him about that. And I could ask him about his day. Instead of talking about myself, I could ask him what's going on in his life, and kind of share some of the joys that he has.

Ellen, that is just terrific. So all right, so we have that. So this idea, ?No one wants to be with me,? is now sounding to me like it's not 100% right?if indeed your son wants to have something to do with you.

Right? No, it can't be 100% right, because I know he loves me. I know he does.

Yeah. Is there anyone else who you think might want to be with you?

I have a neighbor. She was on vacation. But we do take walks together, and sometimes we go to the movies.

Oh, what's that neighbor's name?

Sandra.

Sandra. Now, do you have some evidence that Sandra does not want to be with you?

Only when she's busy.

Okay. And how is it these days for her?

Oh, she's very busy.

She's very busy. Do you think that she might be willing to go out?maybe just for a 10-minute walk with you? Do you think that she's too busy for a 10-minute walk?

Well, I think she'd probably like it. Maybe give her a break.

If I called her first thing in the morning, that would be great.

That's a good plan. In fact, just so you'll remember these things, is it all right if I write these down for you?or you could write them down? So one is, you're going to email your son, and you're going to talk to him about some uplifting topics, right? Ice skating. And you're going to ask him questions, right?

And the second thing is, you're going to call Sandra and walk with her. Do you think you might talk with her about the same kinds of things?

I could do the same thing. I could share better things with her. You know, I'm feeling better already.

Are you?

I bet you've changed this thought. So the old thought was, ?No one wants to be with me.? What's the new thought?

People want to be with me. They just have busy lives, and I need to make an effort to reach out to them.

That is excellent. In fact, I'm going to write that one down. Old thought: ?No one wants to be with me.? More realistic thought is: ?People have busy lives, and if I reach out, they'll respond.?

Right?

I'm talking with Dr. Judy Beck, and Dr. Judy Beck is showing what a cognitive therapy session might look like for a depressed person. I'm playing the role of the depressed person, and I wish we had a lot of time to talk about how you identified my problem, my thinking problem?how you helped me challenge my own wrong thinking, how you wrote a coping card at the end and gave me homework to do. That's all part of cognitive therapy.

How can people get in touch with you?

Well, a good way of getting more information about cognitive therapy is through two websites. One is AcademyofCT.org, and the second is Beck Institute. www.BeckInstitute.org

. In fact, on the second website, there's a brochure that people can download called Questions and Answers About Cognitive Therapy, and that'll give everyone a lot more information.

And thank you so much, Dr. Judy Beck, for joining us today.

My pleasure.

And wishing you all a lovely week this week. I'm Dr. Ellen Kenner on The Rational Basis of Happiness. See you next week.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this ad.

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner:

A person who understands themself makes for a better romantic partner, and the skill of introspection greatly helps here. Introspection means looking inward at the contents and processes of your own mind and identifying what you're thinking and feeling.

Why does it matter whether or not you understand yourself? First, you need introspection for self-esteem. Introspection enables you to monitor your own mental habits and processes and determine whether you're in focus or not?that is, whether you're actively thinking, mindlessly drifting, or deliberately unfocusing your mind. For example, using defenses. Mental focus is necessary to be in control of your life.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance at Amazon.com.