The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish path to romance. Download chapter one for free. Dr. Kenner.com, and right now

I want to welcome Heather to the show. Heather, you're having some difficulty with your parents.

Hi, yeah,

yeah, tell me what's going on.

Well, basically, my parents are evangelical Christians. Okay? They're very serious about their religion, and that's how I was raised. I went to Christian schools, and when I got out of high school, I went to Bible college, even. And when I was there, I decided that I wasn't going to be a Christian anymore. I've been to it more. And I said, Wait, this isn't even true. Why am I here? Okay, so I left, and that was a few years ago, and I'm 26 now, and I guess the problem is just like, how to deal with my parents. I mean, they don't want to talk about it or think about it or anything. And, you know, they just kind of, they still, you know, expect me to go to church with them and everything when I go home and every time that I don't want to, it's like they've never heard of this before, so they just don't know how to like deal with something.

Okay?

So let me see if I've got the situation correctly. You definitely have had the opportunity to think about religion. It's not that you are isolated from it, it's that you were immersed in it. There are evangelicals. You've been to Bible school, meaning you've had enough data so that you can assess it independently and decide, does this make sense? Is this the moral code I want to follow in life, or are there things that are contradictory and that don't make any sense, right? And so you've made the decision that you would prefer not to have a religion in your life?

Yeah, definitely.

And what do you have instead?

Oh, well, that's a whole other story.

Okay.

After I left there, I went and I got a philosophy degree at a university, and that didn't really help much either. Like, it just took me about five years to figure out what I actually was going to do and figure out an actually rational philosophy that actually, you know, describes the world as it actually is and to be happy with and find a rational morality, I guess.

Okay, so a rational moral code, or people. Many people don't know that that is an alternative. They think it's religion or nothing, as if religion has a monopoly on morality, and religion is just one form of a philosophy. Look at all the different religions that are around and how they contradict one another. So here's what I hear is the essence. It's the battle not over religion, per se. It's the battle over your mind. Who owns your mind? When parents raise a kid, they don’t want kids to veer off their path, especially when you get to the most fundamental questions about life, what is the nature of reality? How do you know it? How do you treat other people, and do you have a right to pursue your own happiness, or should you sacrifice in life? Those are some of the fundamental questions. There are more, obviously, but that’s the whole field of philosophy. So how do you deal with parents who are frustrated that you're not making the same choice that they did, which may make them feel like a success or a failure as a parent, right?

It makes them feel like a failure, right.

And it feels like I'm accusing them of something.

Of what?

Being wrong.

Okay, isn’t that fascinating?

Which, which, you know, I am sort of, which makes it hard for me to know what to do, okay? Like, I do think that they're wrong, but I don't want to say that to them. I don’t want that to be like an issue.

Okay, so can you be your mom with me and treat me the way she would treat you? What would she say?

Hey, I gotta interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Alan will be back. Romance.

I wish I knew more about what girls want from a relationship. Well, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is—the selfish path to romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it at amazon.com. Huh? The Selfish path to romance. That is interesting.

Can you be your mom with me and treat me the way she would treat you? Okay? What would she say?

Well, I mean, for example, right now, I'm living with my fiance.

Okay, that's important to do before you get married, to know somebody really well, yeah.

But she would not even want to talk about it. Anytime it came up, she would just kind of go and just kind of say nothing, and then maybe a few days later, she would say, you know, are you sure you're happy? Do you really think that it's okay for you to do this? And, like, don't you think? Or you know, she'll send me a news report of, like, couples who live together have more chance of getting divorced or something, right?

I've seen those myself.

Yeah, really, like, so indirect ways of just keeping it going.

Okay, so one of the options you have is to say to her, “Mom, I can hear that you have concerns about my living with Joe.” I'll make up a name for him. “My living with Joe, and I hear that it really disturbs you. It bothers you. And if you want to touch base directly, I’d be glad to sit down and talk with you about it. I don’t think it will change my mind, but it may be better to just, you know, give you an opportunity, and give me an opportunity, to just get out in the open what we're feeling without hurting each other.” What would she say to that?

Well, she would probably not really want to have a discussion about it. I mean, I don’t think that she's really put that much thought into it. I think she just kind of thinks it’s dangerous not to do what you’re told. It’s more that she's worried that I’m not safe than that she actually has thought about it and sees this as a problem.

You know, Mom, I know you’re not wanting to talk about it much. My guess—and I may be off base here—is that you're thinking I'm not safe, that there's something a little shaky about this, and that I’m not safe. Am I on target at all, or am I in the ballpark? What might she say?

Um, well, yeah, yeah, that's probably about what she would think.

Okay, but then what would she say back to me?

Um, well, yeah, you know there are these guidelines in place for a reason, and if you don’t follow them, then you’re asking for trouble.

You know, Mom, the guidelines—if you want to talk about them, I think there’s a whole continuum, a whole range of possibilities. And one possibility is that I could stay with someone and then get very hurt by them because it didn’t work out, and then I would feel like, Oh, why did I do that? I wish I had waited till I was married, or waited a little longer to settle in with this person. At the other end of the range are examples of people who get to know each other really well and end up being together, and they have a very happy life together. And I don’t think it’s just one-dimensional, Mom. I think that there are many possible outcomes, and I’m hoping sometime you let your mind go to the more positive outcomes that could come from this. So, it's giving her a way to stretch her thinking if she wants to, but just letting her know there are other possibilities. It’s not just a done deal that there’s going to be a negative outcome. In terms of the religion part, how do you think she might give me a quick example of what she might say if she hears that I'm not going to church, for example, or temple, whatever it is?

Well, I guess the way it would work, or has worked, is if I’m staying at her house otherwise, and she would just assume the entire time that I am going to go, and eventually make me say that I'm not going and then just leave and be mad at me.

Okay, so here’s what I might do, Heather. When you start to stay over there, if you're spending time with her, you can say, “Mom, I want to make this comfortable for all of us, and I want to let you know in the beginning so we don't have this undercurrent of tension between us that I’m not planning to go to church. If you want to touch base, we could talk about it for a few minutes, and then I would love to enjoy the rest of the time with you without that being stressful for both of us.” Try that.

Thank you so much for your call.

Great, thank you.

Thank you, Heather.

And here’s a little more from Dr. Kenner:

“Oh my God, here. Have a rainbow by Dr. Honey, Snow Mike, Debbie. How can you listen to this stuff? It’s absolute drivel.”

“Well, for someone who writes drivel, she’s awfully popular.”

“Oh, really fancy that. She tells everyone that they’re perfectly wonderful and that nothing wrong is ever their fault. What do you know? They like it.”

And doesn’t that happen so much in our lives when you don't know how to take responsibility, or you're afraid to? Don’t you gravitate towards people who tell you, “Oh, don’t worry, we’re all human. It’s not your fault. You couldn’t help it.” And there are some things that fit into that category, things you couldn’t help. But deep down, many of those issues—you know you could help it, but people gravitate towards others who let them off the hook. And that happens a lot in religion. You see all of these people who are criminals or working with the mob, and they gravitate towards religion. You know, funny, how they find religion.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com.

Here’s an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance by Drs. Kenner and Locke:

“When pursuing a romantic relationship, be wary of a partner’s refusal to take a medical condition seriously, such as high blood pressure. Individuals who do not value their own lives enough to take steps to stay healthy condemn their partners to chronic worry. Who enjoys the prospect of living with someone at high risk health-wise, yet refuses to take reasonable actions to reduce that risk? It’s like living with someone committing slow suicide. The same principle holds for partners with mental health problems, which can be serious because often people with mental health issues deny or do not realize how serious their problem is. For example, depression—outside help from a family doctor may be needed to convince the person to seek therapy.”

You can download chapter one for free at DrKenner.com, and you can buy the book at Amazon.com.