The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

Summary

Struggling with conflict, communication, or trust in your relationship? In this short and insightful interview, Dr. Judy Beck—a leading expert in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT)—shares practical strategies for couples counseling and resolving common relationship issues.

Transcript

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Of course, I love her, but it's a different kind of love. I mean, it doesn't burn with the passion and intensity of a Tristan and Isolde. It is more comfortable, more familiar. Maris and I are old friends. We can spend an afternoon together—me at my jigsaw puzzle, she at her auto harbor—not a word spoken between us and be perfectly content.

Okay, imagine that you're a wife and you've been married for maybe 10 years or so, and you're so frustrated in your relationship because you've begged, you've pleaded, you've cried, you've yelled, you've tried everything to get your husband on board and to try to help you out around the house, and to try to pay some attention with you, but he's just not doing that. What do you do? What if you decide this is too much, I can't handle this anymore, and I want couples therapy, or at least I want to go into therapy, and I want to try a cognitive therapist.

And you have the good fortune of walking into Dr. Judy Beck's office. Dr. Judy Beck is the director of the Beck Institute for Cognitive Therapy and Research in Philadelphia, and she's also the clinical associate professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania. She's lectured worldwide, and she's also written books. Her newest is Cognitive Therapy: Basics and Beyond, with a foreword by her father, who is also the father of cognitive therapy, Dr. Aaron Beck. Welcome to the show, Judy, thank you.

If I came in as that harried housewife—or they'll say, I have a career too, I'm not just a housewife—what advice would you give me as a cognitive therapist? Where would you even begin with me?

The first thing I would ask you is, what are your goals? How would you like to be different? How would you like your life to be different?

I want my husband, Judy, that's easy. I want my husband to listen to me. I want to feel important to him, and all he does is call me a big nag. I just want him to change, and I want your help in helping me change him.

And then what I would say is, can you imagine for a moment, Ellen, that everything is going really well in your marriage? If things were going really well in your marriage, what would you be doing differently?

Well, I can remember that I never used to nag him. When we first got married, we were best friends. I could tell him everything. I could share with him. He would help me with the groceries. And I don't even know who that person is anymore. He's gone.

Yeah. So one thing is, you wouldn't nag him. You'd tell him more things. Would you spend more enjoyable time together?

You know, if it's been a while since we've done that, we're more on the functional mode—you know, who takes the kids to the doctors, who gets the groceries, who does this? And usually it's me.

And if things were going really well in your marriage, what would you like to do with your husband?

I'd love to travel with him. I don't even need the travel. I would just like to come home at the end of the day and be able to hug him, to be with him, to feel that he loves me, to have him ask me a question about my day. And that's not happening. Instead, I just see him withdrawing in front of the TV set or with his work. He's so involved with work, and he's not around me. He's not there for me.

You know, it sounds to me as if there are really two routes that are going to be important here. One route is to really analyze what you've been doing and what hasn't been working, and then try some new strategies.

I probably have been nagging. I can be pretty mean when I get going. I can be cruel, and I cry, you know? I just get so frustrated. But it hasn't been working. But I don't know, what would I do differently?

Let me just ask you one more question. If you continue to do this for another 10 years, do you think it would last another year?

No. Okay, it wouldn't last. Dr. Beck, it would—no, right?

So one of the things to do is for you to start thinking: if I were happier with him, what would I do differently? Not what would I expect him to do differently, but what would I do differently? And I think you'll find that if you start acting differently toward your husband, he's going to respond.

Okay. So you're saying that I need to think about my role in this, and that's not the angle I was looking at. I was hoping you would help me change him.

Well, that's almost everyone who comes into my office says that, and the way I usually respond is, "Hey, I gotta interrupt this, because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it." A very quick ad, and then Ellen will be back.

Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad?

Here it is: The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at SelfishRomance.com and buy it @amazon.com.

Hmm, The Selfish Path to Romance—that is interesting.

Ellen, I was hoping you would help me change him?

Well, that's almost everyone who comes into my office says that, and the way I usually respond is, well, you've already tried to change him for how many days, weeks, months, or years?

Years.

Years, right. And would you say that you have complete control over him?

No, I don't.

Who's the only person that you really have control over?

Obviously, me.

Exactly. So I could do things differently. I mean, there's a recipe I make for beef stroganoff that he loves, and I think if he walked in the house and saw that and I just didn't nag him tonight, maybe that would help.

That's a wonderful idea.

That's a wonderful idea. Now, that sounds like there's also—and I think that probably you can come up with more things like that. Maybe you could think about that.

There's a second thing I think we ought to work on, and that is, it sounds like you're a little overburdened. You have your work, you have the home, you have your kids. Way too much, way too much. I'm so stressed out, and I think I take it out on him. And it sounds like, at least right now, he's not going to be willing to help you out.

So can we talk about some ways to reduce your stress? Maybe finding someone else to help you out?

I could get a mother's helper for the kids, a girl next door that could help me out.

Great idea. And also, I belong to, I think, too many clubs. I have a bridge club that I really don't enjoy, and a book club too, and I'm just trying to fit way too much in.

That's terrific. So I think that reducing the number of things you have to do—either by giving some things up, at least for the moment, especially things you're not enjoying, and by getting some more help in the house—I think you'll feel less stressed and then less likely to nag your husband.

What do you think would happen if you said, for the next two months, refrain from nagging him, got help for yourself, and put the emphasis on just trying to spend nice time with him?

That feels overwhelming. I mean, I could try it for tonight, but two months just seems like, you know, I'd probably break by tomorrow morning and be back to nagging him again.

And you know, what we have to do is take one day at a time, and let's try to see if we could figure out what are some things that perhaps you could do with him that wouldn't take very much effort or energy on your part, but might mean a great deal to him—like the beef stroganoff.

The beef stroganoff, that's a tough one. Anything else that you think would be really meaningful to him, like giving him a back rub or something like that?

Oh, I think he would just be blown away if I did that. He'd be pretty surprised.

Oh, he would be so surprised, because we used to do that a lot. We used to give each other back rubs. Right, he would think I lost my marbles.

So you see, the strategy here is: don't do more of the same. Try something new, and you take the initiative to improve things.

So basically, I'm improving myself, and I'm going to break out of role play. Now I'm talking with Dr. Judy Beck, and she's illustrating how she would treat me if I came in as this woman who's having difficulty in her marriage. She was overwhelmed.

Dr. Beck, how would you sum up what we've been doing?

Well, we took a real-life problem and we divided it into two parts. One is trying to come up with some new strategies, and the second part, which actually comes even before that, is recognizing the need to change oneself instead of continuing to try to change the other person.

Okay, so it's focusing on what's possible to change and not getting stuck in the old strategies.

Thank you so much for joining us today. This is Dr. Judy Beck, and if you want more information on cognitive therapy, you can go to the Academy of CT—all one word.org, that's right. And is there another website?

They can go to Dr. Beck: www.beckinstitute.org

.

Okay, and there are articles there. I read a wonderful article there entitled A Change of Mind that was actually from the Washington Post. Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr. Judy.

You're very welcome.

For more Dr. Kenner podcasts, go to DrKenner.com and please listen to this ad. Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance, the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and co-author Dr. Edwin Locke.

Spending leisure time together in compatible activities is a wonderful way to strengthen your love, whether it's dining out, reading in bed together, going to the movies, attending concerts, playing sports, listening to music, or going on vacations. Taking time to deliberately bask in the enjoyment of one another's company is ultimately one of the most rewarding things you can both do, even if you have different tastes. There are ways to make both of you happy, some activities you can do with friends, but it is important that you and your partner do not routinely go your separate ways.

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