The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

The Selfish paths are romance. Download chapter one for free at Drkenner.com and @amazon.com.

People talk. If you don't go to confession, or if you don't take your flower beds, or if you don't pretend that you want nothing more in your life than to serve your husband three meals a day and get him children and vacuum under his ass, then you must think, "I'm stupid to stay with him."

Boy, I am. I'm weak. I don't love my husband, and I lie.

Now, what do you do if you've been married for a long time and your relationship is going down the tubes, and you want some help? And you think, should we go to a therapist or not? Will they make things worse? Will this mean automatic divorce therapy, or is there a way to mend what's going on in our relationship?

With me today to discuss relationships is Dr. Corey Newman. He's the director of the Center for Cognitive Therapy in Philadelphia. He's an associate professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. He's an exceptional therapist, an international lecturer, and he's the author of several books, including Choosing to Live, The Cognitive Therapy of Substance Abuse, along with Beck, Wright, and Lise Bipolar Disorder: A Cognitive Therapy Approach. He's energetic, smart, playful, and an effective teacher. Welcome, Dr. Corey Newman.

Thanks very much. Glad to be here.

Oh, it's great to have you on the show. Dr. Newman, what happens if, say, I'm the wife of a couple coming in, and I'm saying that we're coming in here for couples therapy because my husband just doesn't understand me? He's always buying me things. I mean, he bought me a new car and he bought me clothes, but we never spend time together, and it drives me buggy, and it's been this way for years. He just thinks he can throw his money at me and shut me up. And I'm fed up with it. I just want a divorce at this point. What can you, as a cognitive therapist, do?

Well, if I'm seeing both people at that moment, I would look over at the husband and I'd say, "What's your take on this? What's your point of view? How do you interpret what's going wrong?"

There's no way to please her. There's just no way to please her. I mean, I try everything I can do. I mean, I got her the car she wanted. I went out and I special ordered it with the interior just the way she wanted it, with the music system the way she wanted it, and all she does is complain. I mean, it is pointless.

I think some people would say, "Gee, what's wrong with this marriage?" Sure, it seems like things are going well enough compared to my marriage, where there's an affair going on and so forth.

The point I'm making here is that I can give you a pretty good example of what's going wrong with this situation, recognizing that there are some serious marital problems like abuse or affairs and secrets and things of that sort that may go beyond what I can say right now, but I can at least fill you in on what a typical problem is based on the example you just gave.

That is misinterpretation of the other person's behavior and a clash of the unwritten rules for what makes a marriage work. In this particular case, I can't prove this. I would want to go carefully to the session just to assess this, but I'm already conceptualizing and thinking the husband has an unwritten rule that says, "If I'm a really good guy who provides, if I buy things for my wife, if I show I'm considerate, to know what she likes and do it for her and get it for her, then I'm being a good husband, and she ought to appreciate me." If she doesn't, then she's really being a shrew.

And she may have the unwritten rule that says practical things are really not that important. Maybe she had a father who was absent, but he would always buy her things, and it didn't mean much to her. And she learned that that's a poor substitute for being there.

And she has the unwritten rule that says, "Really, demonstration of caring is when someone is touchy-feely and talks to you and spends time with you and discusses the relationship and your future and so forth." And buying things is really a very poor second choice, and to her, in her interpretation of her husband's behavior, he's simply copping out.

He's finding the easy way out. Rather than spend time with her and invest in her and be with her, he's just buying her off, and that really ticks her off. Meanwhile, he thinks she's just being unappreciative. She's being beyond pleasing, and he's frustrated and exasperated, then gets angry, which then, to her, proves he doesn't care, ergo, a vicious cycle.

But they're misinterpreting each other's points of view, and they have different rules.

And now, as in, now we're in therapy, and I say, "Okay, you make a lot of sense, Dr. Newman, but I just don't get where we go from here." What would cognitive therapy? What would you do as a cognitive therapist to help them repair the relationship?

Hey, I got to interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds, that's it. A very quick ad, and then Ellen will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is, The Selfish Path to Romance, a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it @amazon.com. Hmm. The Selfish Path to Romance, that is interesting.

What would you do as a cognitive therapist to help them repair the relationship? One of the things is to give them the tools to evaluate what's happening in their interactions, when it's happening, rather than just to react, to have the knee-jerk reaction of this: the wife gets angry, the husband gets distant, the wife pursues, the husband gets more distant, the wife gets angry.

To say, "Think about what's going on. Think about how you're interpreting what the other person is doing." And then try to talk to that person. Say, "You know, when you do this behavior, when you buy me these things, I get upset because it makes me think you're trying to buy me off rather than spend time with me."

And then you, the husband, can say, "Wait a minute, you're misunderstanding. I'm so sorry if it's coming across that way to me. I'm, you know me, I'm uncomfortable being touchy-feely. Maybe that's just a problem I have, but you know, I do things for you because I listen to what your needs are, and I want to fulfill them the way I know best, and this is the way I know best.

And maybe we're not clicking on all cylinders here, but I'm trying, and it's not perfect, but at least they're no longer looking at each other's behavior as being malevolent, and that's a very key factor. The couples that are really distressed don't simply miss each other; they misinterpret the other as being malevolent, trying to hurt them, trying to win, to control, to hurt.

Okay, so in that type of a situation, what you could do is, once they start talking, they can come up with some type of a valid compromise. Absolutely. Maybe we could take a walk every, you know, maybe every Tuesday night we could take a walk and go out to dinner at an inexpensive place, so it doesn't involve a lot of money, and spend time with each other.

And then, if you buy me the gifts, you can put a note on it saying, "Honey, I really care for you. I'm not Dad," right? And we'd have to make sure that the couple doesn't jump to conclusions. For example, suppose the husband, on a spur of the moment, bought something for his wife.

She might get really flustered thinking, "Wait a minute, he's backing out on our walk for this Friday. He's buying this as a way of avoiding that," and maybe he still plans to do the walk on Friday. So we have to teach them how to make it explicit. "I'm still going to follow through on what I promised you, but this is just a little extra I wanted to do," okay? So that she doesn't rush to the negative interpretation.

And one of the worst things that a couple, I mean, there are many worse things, but one of the worst things is for him to say, "You look upset, honey," and she says, "Nothing's wrong. Nothing's wrong." You know, after he gives her a gift, and she says, "But I told you a million times not to get me gifts. I don't want that. I don't want money or things thrown at me," and he said, "But I was listening to you the other day. You said that you wanted this so badly," and if she closes off and doesn't communicate at all, then everything comes to a standstill.

It's true that even when they disagree, it's a very important time to really spell out what the nature of the disagreement is, and the key there is to do it in a respectful way because all too often, couples look at it in black and white. They look at it as either they better not say anything, or all hell will break loose, or they actually say things that are quite exaggerated or hurtful to make a point and to win the argument, rather than trying carefully, diplomatically to spell out their point of disagreement.

Things like, "You always," "You never do this," or "You're always picking on me."

Okay, this has been great. I'm talking with Dr. Corey Newman, who is the director of the Center for Cognitive Therapy in Philadelphia. If you would like to find a cognitive therapist in whatever state you're in, Dr. Newman has a website that you can go to.

There is an international website called Academy of CT.org, and that's Academy of CT, as in cognitive therapy, all in one blurb. And if you click onto Academy of CT.org, you will be able to find a cognitive therapist who's been trained and certified as a cognitive therapist in almost every state of the USA and in many countries as well.

So you'll find someone who's close to you who can be of service and help you. And I also want to encourage you to pick up Dr. Newman's book. If you know of anybody who's potentially suicidal, Choosing to Live is an excellent book.

This is a book for people who are feeling suicidal as well as people who care about those who are suicidal, as well as their counselors, right? So you give some help to people who are dealing with family members or a loved one who's suicidal.

Thank you so much for joining us today. Look forward to talking with you again soon.

Thanks so much.

For more Dr. Kenner podcast, go to Drkenner.com and please listen to this.

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance. Bye.

Doctors Kenner and Locke, a number of factors undermine sexual arousal and enjoyment. Anger and resentment are romance destroyers. So obviously, they are sex destroyers too. In a Newsweek cover story, "No Sex, Please. We're Married," one woman said, "I get angry because he doesn't help around the house enough, or with the kids. He sees the groceries sitting on the counter. Why doesn't he take them out of the bag and put them away? How can I get sexy when I'm ticked off all the time?"

Observe that helping is one of this woman's love languages. It is important to have a mutually agreed upon division of labor regarding household chores, career financial issues, and parenting responsibilities. This sets the proper context for a healthy sex life. When each partner feels that the other is fair and supportive, romance is much more likely to flourish.

Download chapter one for free at Drkenner.com and @amazon.com.