The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

(this is raw unedited text, computer transcribed directly from the audio, without voice inflection, pauses etc. Sometimes this results in the text implying the opposite of the intended meaning.)

(Micro ad) . . .
The Selfish Path to Romance - download chapter one for free at Dr kenner.com or at amazon.com.
=======

Isaac, you have a question about going blank in conversations?

Um, yeah. There's this. Okay, well, yes, exactly what you said. It happens, like, every time when I tried to talk to someone, you know, just no normal daily, you know, conversation talk. I sometimes run out of things to say. And then there, then there goes that awkward silence. And I just just gets weird from there.

Okay. Well, do you know what one of the things you can say is?

Well, like, on my way from school today, I was talking to one of my students from the class. Yeah. And we know, it was just small talk, you know, Hey, how was school? How? How was class where, you know, oh, you have a teacher gave us this assignment. And, and, you know, then after that, I just, you know, I don't know what to say, I don't know what to talk about.

Okay. So there's something about the way you're thinking about having a conversation that is tripping you up getting in the way. And if you if you are telling yourself, I have to have a conversation, I have to have things to say I have to keep the conversation rocking and rolling. What word do I keep repeating or what words? It's half? Two? Can you hear that? Half? Two? Yeah. That you are pressuring yourself. Just like if a parent said to me, Elon, you have to say the right things on radio, Elon, you can't make any mistakes. Elon, you have to keep the conversation going, how enjoyable? Would that conversation be for me? Yeah, you're right. It wouldn't be enjoyable at all. Whereas if you have a different approach, that's much kinder to yourself much gentler to yourself. It's going to be easier. You don't first of all, many of us draw blanks, or we're having a conversation that's not very interesting with someone, we're talking about the weather or we're talking about just school in general. And it's hard for anyone to keep that type of a conversation going. And usually the people who can keep that con type of a conversation going up bores, you know, they can they can talk about their toenails and make they think that you're interested. So tell me who are the most important people in your life? I say, Yes. Who were the who were the most important people that you would like to be able to talk to? Is it your classmates? Is it a girlfriend?

My girlfriend would be one to start off with.

Okay. So when if you're talking about how to talk with her what typically goes on? Where do you get stumped or stuck with her?

I guess what to say.

With her?

Yeah.

Okay. Let me give you a different approach. If you're thinking, oh, I want to find out more about her.

That's the problem. I don't know how to open up. them make them open as well.

So oh, that's a very good question. I'm going to recommend a book when we get near the end here. One of the if you want what are called ice breakers.

So ice breaker would be like an interest.

An ice breaker would be something that you say to get a conversation rocking and rolling. For example, I can be in my office and there are other people in the suite on the floor that I'm on. And we pass each other. We don't necessarily have conversations with each other. It's just a passing high. What if I went by their office and said . . .

=======
(ad)
Hey, I gotta interrupt this because we've got to pay some bills. 30 seconds. That's it. A very quick break and then Ellen will be back.

Romance. Oh, I wish guys knew more about what we want from a relationship. Boy, I wish I knew more about what I want. Where's that ad I saw? Here it is The Selfish Path to Romance - a serious romance guidebook. Download chapter one for free at selfishromance.com and buy it at amazon.com. Hmm, The Selfish Path to Romance. That IS interesting.
=====

And we pass each other. We don't necessarily have conversations with each other. It's just a passing high. What if I went by their office and said Man, you should see the clouds coming. I have big windows. You should see the clouds row. calling in, guess what? We're going to have a conversation because they get out of their chairs and come in my office and they start. It's just a way to start a conversation. If you read something interesting on in the paper or something on the news, that's funny. You know, what is it Burger King is going to have baked bacon ice cream.

I know it sounds silly yet, but the thing is also. And even when I do converse, sometimes my I feel slow, like, like, it takes them a bit to process what they're saying and then come up with a response would it couldn't be like something that's wrong with me or like a disorder? I don't know.

I wouldn't go labeling yourself with a disorder. Because if you have a disorder, many other people have that. I would think of it more as you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself rather than making it enjoyable. When I say fun, I don't mean silly. I mean, enjoyable for yourself. If I say, I want to learn more about Isaac, let me have a conversation with you. Why don't we try that? Tell me What sports do you do you enjoy any sports?

Yes, I like doing karate.

Karate. Oh, my husband used to do karate. Are you What level are you at?

I was a practicing karate. Yeah.

Oh, I was a white belt. Meaning I was at the lowest level. What do you have a you at a certain level in karate?

Yes. I'm a brown belt.

You're a brown belt? Man. So you've been doing this for a while?

Yeah.

So something about it is enjoyable for you?

Yes, definitely.

Yeah. Tell me about it. What do you enjoy most?

Well, I like it. First of all, like the exercise, when you're forced me out. I mean, you get stronger and you know, you lose weights. So that's the best part.

So you stay fit.

Yeah. And another thing is that another thing is that also its way to itself for self defense. Right? So, you know, really good way.

So you feel more protective of yourself. You can defend yourself and your girlfriend?

Yes, definitely the best of number one.

Right. So okay, I'm gonna stop the conversation here. Could you hear the smile in your voice that you were enjoying talking about karate? Yeah. If you ask your girlfriend, what hobbies does she like? Or what happened? You know what? What happened in her English course is something today or you tell a story from your English course. You can get that conversation rolling easier. And you can have what you had with me, which is a very even easy flow to the conversation. And you have been able to talk with me very clearly. It's been enjoyable to talk with you, Isaac. And so before you go, I just wanted to tell you, but it doesn't feel normal to feel slow at times.

When you're if you're anxious. Yes. If you're asking yourself, What if I screw up? That'll slow down your mind? That'll paralyze your mind? Oh, so if I'm saying to myself, oh my god, I have to say the right thing to Isaac make sure you give him good advice. What if I screw up? I am going to feel anxious and that my mind is on my anxiety not on enjoying my conversation with you. I want to switch the channel and enjoy my conversation. So let me give you the book. The book is called I mean, it sounds odd. It's the loneliness workbook. But there are a lot of skills in it on meeting people and starting conversation and what a turn offs and what to turn on some relationships. And it's by Mary Ellen Copeland. You can go to my website, Dr. kenner.com. That's Dr. kenner.com. Listen, I wish you a lot of joyous conversations have enjoy them. Have fun with them.

Yeah, thank you.

=========
And here's a little more from Dr. Kenner . . .

(From TV show)
So this is about mom. No. All right. Sure, doesn't help remind me what a great lady she was. When you've been married for 35 years and you never thought there'd be anybody else. And one day you hear yourself say I love you to another woman. Maybe then you'll understand what I'm going through. It's probably natural to feel that way. God understand exactly what you're going through. No you don't you don't understand at all. There's a time back when my first marriage was breaking up. I was talking to Mom I said, All right, Mom, give me one good reason for me to ever let myself fall in love again. She said, Because I said so. And I'm your mother.

Very cute and very sad to very poignant that's from Frasier. And how do you go on and find romance again, after you've lost the love of your life? Or after you've been married many years to one person, and maybe, maybe they didn't die? Maybe you divorced. And it's just hard to think of waking up next to somebody else and trusting them and thinking that things can work out in the future. How do you beat back those ideas in your head that are telling you that romance is impossible? You don't ever want to buy into the idea that romance is not possible for you. It is your life.

=====
For more Dr. Kenner podcasts go to DrKenner.com. And please listen to this ad . . .

Here's an excerpt from The Selfish Path to Romance the serious romance guidebook by clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Kenner and co author Dr. Edwin Locke, who is world famous for his theories on goal setting . . .

A romantic relationship is ideally a partnership of equals. decisions that affect both partners should be made jointly, which is another way of enhancing mutual visibility. Consider a negative case. Katie complains that a boyfriend shock is full of surprises that are intended to please her, such as vacation getaways. It's a disaster because he never bothers to ask her what she actually wants. Imagine telling your partner on Wednesday that you've arranged for a vacation to Alaska next week, when in fact your partner has no desire to go to Alaska and has a busy work schedule.

You can download chapter one for free by going to DrKenner.com, and you can buy The Selfish Path to Romance at amazon.com