The Rational Basis® of Happiness Podcast

(this is raw unedited text transcribed directly from the audio)

Dr. Kenner: Abby, you have a problem with your 12-year-old daughter?

Abby: Yes I do.

Dr. Kenner: Tell me more about that.

Abby: She’s just very rebellious lately. She has a boyfriend and wants to text him all the time, talk on the computer with him. They’ve gone to the movies occasionally, but I told her at this point she’s too young to have this type of relationship. She turned on me. She hates me. She hates my husband. She hates everything we ask her to do. She’s just gotten very ugly. Should I give her space or should I stay with her or what should I do at this point?

Dr. Kenner: Basically she’s discovered … is the guy a decent guy, first of all? Is this a safety issue?

Abby: He’s okay. No, it’s not a safety issue. It’s in her grade, he’s the same age, but it just seems like every time we reject him coming over here or going over there or pursuing this relationship, she turns on us.

Dr. Kenner: What are her words?

Abby: She’s very ugly about it.

Dr. Kenner: Give me ugly. The ones that you can say over the radio.

Abby: She wants to make her own decisions, make her own mistakes. She wants to do what she wants to do and we ruin everything for her and it’s just the end of the world. She’s been very well taken care of as we’ve raised her, but I don’t understand why she’s turning into this other person.

Dr. Kenner: Can you think back in your own, when you were about 12, 13, 14 years old, do you remember your relationship with your parents?

Abby: Yes.

Dr. Kenner: Do you remember any moments when you didn’t agree with them, that you wanted to work and you didn’t want to work or you wanted to do XYZ and they didn’t want you to?

Abby: Absolutely I remember that.

Dr. Kenner: Give me one that stands out in your mind.

Abby: Probably going to work.

Dr. Kenner: Tell me about that. What happened? You did what and your parents said what?

Abby: I wanted to work in a diner, in restaurants. But I was never disrespectful about it. Your parents call the shots and I was never disrespectful the way she is with us, and I never turned on them the way she does with us. Running into her bedroom and slamming her door. It’s not that much of a crisis. Why is she acting so extreme?

Dr. Kenner: For you it’s not a crisis. If you told me I couldn’t see my husband anymore, I would rebel. I would go underground. So you know, for kids, because they’re so much more savvy than most of us were - maybe you were more savvy, I wasn’t at the age of 12 - they know what romance is about or at least they think they do, and the first love is usually the most potent, the most tender. I don’t know if that happened in your life, but I can remember my first romantic relationship with a guy, in junior high school. His name was Bobby. I adored him. He was so good to me. And if my parents had ever said, “You’re too young. You can’t see him,” I would have been fuming with them. But I was more like you. I would have held it in. I would not have been overtly disrespectful, but I would have been passive aggressive probably back then, because I was angry with them. How dare they take away one of the top values in my life? And a romantic relationship is a top value.

So here’s a different direction you can go. First, I want to recommend a book. It’s called, well, these authors are wonderful. I consider them the gold standard of parenting, because they don’t make you into a doormat, a pushover, as a parent. You’re not just someone to walk over and you don’t have any viewpoint. That doesn’t get you anywhere, except for your kid runs rough shot over you. And they also don’t make you into the cop, the authoritarian and you end up having a relationship where you feel like you’re bullying your kids and they’re defying you. They’re like the criminal. 

Instead, it develops, you learn skills to develop a very respectful relationship with one another, and when your daughter gets mouthy or gets upset with you, you draw her out rather than counter attack or rather than put on punishments. You say,  “You know, I hear you using a lot of angry words. This must be very important to you. Help me understand where you’re coming from honey. When you get that angry, instead of using those words, help me understand what you think would be a better solution.” So you temporarily sidestep the swipes, which is almost impossible for us as parents to do, and you try to say, “What is bothering you?” If you were to say to your 12-year-old, let’s say that I’m the parent and I say, “You know honey, you’re too young. I don’t want him over here. I’m concerned when you go to the movies together.” What does your daughter say to you?

Abby: It’s just that she wants to make her own decisions.

Dr. Kenner: I want to make my own decisions.

Abby: She wants to hang around with who she wants to hang around with. 

Dr. Kenner: And I’ll make my own mistakes and correct them.

Abby: Right.

Dr. Kenner: "You know, hon, I love your independence. I wish I had that when I was your age. I admire that in you. Let’s talk about this so we can work together and come up with a solution that works for both of us, because until you’re 18, you’re really under our care, and let’s try to work cooperatively. I don’t want to take away a boyfriend, and I don’t want to rob you of making your own decisions. I want to make sure that I have some confidence that you’re informed. So let’s talk about this.” You can draw her out more. Now, if she gets mouthy at you, you can say, “Listen, I don’t like that language. I can’t hear you. I can’t understand you when you’re saying that. When you’re in a better mood, please let me know what’s bothering you honey. Right now I’m going in the other room. I can’t deal with this.”

Abby: Just bring her out a little more and try to find out where this is coming from.

Dr. Kenner: Yes.

Abby: The books that I recommend are by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. They’re at my website, DrKenner.com. One of them is How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. Typically for younger, probably gets to the 12-year-old range, but all the principles are the same. It’s the same as how to talk so your husband will listen and listen so your husband will talk. It’s just general communication skills, but it’s on pint-sized kids. And there’s one Between Parent and Teenager by Dr. Haim. Ginott. Older book. Phenomenal book that will really give you some insight into how to deal with the ups and downs of bringing up a teenager. Thank you so much for your call Abby. Let me know how things go.

Dr. Kenner: Thank you very much.

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Movie clip

Male 1: Smell my hands. I’m just so proud. I had to stop for gas and I pumped it myself. It’s part of a new kick I’m on.

Male 2: Which is what?

Male 1: I’m learning to be handy. I depend too much on other people, so I’m doing it myself. Feel that and tell me it’s not the start of a first-rate callous. I got my first work shirt this morning and tonight I’m tackling the squeaky hasp on my cigar humidor.

Dr. Kenner: You know, we can sit and laugh at Frasier and Niles and think, you know what? He’s so protected in life. Just going out and pumping his own gas is a big deal. But for each one of us, we make those changes in our life. We try something new that may be relatively simple that we’ve never tried before and it gives us that sense of, “I can conquer the world. I can pump my own gas. I can take on anything. I can apply for new jobs. I can go out and ask that woman out if I wanted to ask someone out.” It gives you courage. I can remember when I had never changed a tire. I always called AAA if my car broke down, but this was in the time before cell phones. My car broke down on a very rainy day. It was a downpour, in the woods, in a wooded area. There were no regular phones around, no homes around, and it was just me and this little teeny car and I had to figure out how to change my tire. How to take off lug nuts. I didn’t even know what those were. I did it and after I did it, I felt on top of the world, like Niles did. So think of taking those little risks in your life, because they seem little on the surface, but they’re big in principle.